Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
Geoff,
I was supporting Pat's point.
Personally, I feel that there are enough other reasons that have already been pointed out and I have not heard any other compelling arguments yet to change my viewpoint on this topic.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Thompson [mailto:thompson@ieee.org]
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:43 PM
To: John D'Ambrosia
Cc: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
John-
On 67//12 12:40 PM, John D'Ambrosia wrote:
> John,
> As Pat already pointed out -
>
> I agree with John. An additional reason is that non-voting EC members can also have substantive assignments from the EC chair including sitting on appeals panels.
>
Just to punch a hole in your argument.
Those eligible to be appointed to an appeals panel don't necessarily
come from the EC or from a pool of folks that have to have a current
letter of endorsement.
Geoff
> While you are one example of a non-voting EC member, there are other examples of individuals who do partake in activities who need to be considered.
>
> John
> -----Original Message-----
> From: J Lemon [mailto:jlemon@meus.us]
> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 3:35 PM
> To: John D'Ambrosia
> Cc: James P. K. Gilb; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
>
> Non-voting members can't do anything that the general 802 public can't
> do. Non-voting members can speak their mind during plenaries. But so can
> anyone else who wants to come up to the mic. Non-voting members can
> communicate on this DL. But so can anyone else who asks to join the
> list. Are we going to ask for endorsement and affiliation letters for
> anyone who participates by speaking during a meeting or sending to this DL?
>
> On 7/6/2012 11:34 AM, John D'Ambrosia wrote:
>
>> John,
>> There are non-voting members who do participate and can have impacts on the decision process via their actual participation.
>>
>> John
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: J Lemon [mailto:jlemon@meus.us]
>> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 2:30 PM
>> To: John D'Ambrosia
>> Cc: James P. K. Gilb; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
>>
>> I see no reason why I, as a non-voting member of the EC, should need to
>> show either endorsement or affiliation. I don't partake in any
>> activities of the EC. So why would I need to prove that some entity
>> endorses my lack of activities? And since I can't vote, how does my
>> affiliation have any effect on anything?
>>
>> John Lemon
>> Chair of Hibernated 802.17
>>
>> On 7/6/2012 10:56 AM, John D'Ambrosia wrote:
>>
>>> James,
>>> Speaking as the guy who will have to deal with people next go around - I would like to see both letters (endorsement / affiliation) called out in the rules, and believe both voting and non-voting should be required to provide both.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org] On Behalf Of James P. K. Gilb
>>> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 1:40 PM
>>> To: Pat Thaler
>>> Cc: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
>>>
>>> All
>>>
>>> BTW: The issue here is the endorsement letter. The affiliation letter
>>> is required by ruling of the Chair. I suspect that you both are
>>> referring the the endorsement letter.
>>>
>>> We could modify the text in c) (for the affiliation letter) to say
>>> something like:
>>> c) Recognition that the individual is expected to act as both a
>>> professional and as an individual expert and, if voting, in accordance
>>> with the conditions stated in the Voting Guidance subclause of the IEEE
>>> 802 Operations Manual.
>>>
>>> That would cover it, I think.
>>>
>>> James Gilb
>>>
>>> On 07/06/2012 07:41 AM, Pat Thaler wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree with John. An additional reason is that non-voting EC members can also have substantive assignments from the EC chair including sitting on appeals panels.
>>>>
>>>> Pat
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John D'Ambrosia
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 5:31 AM
>>>> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>>>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
>>>>
>>>> James,
>>>> I believe all members, including their alternates, of the sponsor should be required to provide the necessary letters of endorsement.
>>>>
>>>> Non-voting members should also provide the affiliation letter. A modified version of the affiliation letter, which doesn't include the statement regarding how to vote, should also be required. IMHO, such individuals still contribute to a decision process without voting by their participation in the debate of issues.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org] On Behalf Of James P. K. Gilb
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 8:15 PM
>>>> To: 802 EC
>>>> Subject: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
>>>>
>>>> All
>>>>
>>>> In the interest of getting the P&P changes onto AudCom's agenda, I would
>>>> like to start discussion of the proposed changes by email so that we can
>>>> have some level of consensus by the Sunday night rules meeting that will
>>>> lead to a successful motion on Monday morning.
>>>>
>>>> Accordingly, I would like to take up discussion of one of the proposed
>>>> changes on this email in search of feedback.
>>>>
>>>> Every 2 years, the Recording secretary asks for letters of endorsement
>>>> from potential EC members. Currently the rule states "Any person to be
>>>> confirmed by the Sponsor shall ...". I had produced two suggestions:
>>>>
>>>> a) "All members of the Sponsor shall ..."
>>>> b) "All voting members of the Sponsor shall ..."
>>>>
>>>> However, I have noticed that this leaves out WG and TAG Vice Chairs, who
>>>> are not members of the Sponsor, but can vote (under the newly modified
>>>> rules) and are confirmed by the sponsor.
>>>>
>>>> It turns out that there is no central place that lists all the persons
>>>> that are to be confirmed by the Sponsor.
>>>>
>>>> So 2 questions:
>>>> 1) Should non-voting members of the Sponsor be required to file
>>>> letters of affiliation including the statement regarding how to vote?
>>>> 2) Should we add a list of the persons to be confirmed by the Sponsor?
>>>>
>>>> James Gilb
>>>>
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