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Re: [802SEC] reminder - 802 meeting fee increases friday at 11:59PM UTC, not AoE

Finding this in 9.21,  for meeting announcements and other deadlines meant to be read by humans (not computers), we would dd Month yyyy. 
formal correspondence, etc.: DD Month YYYY (e.g., 10 June 2020)
The yyyy-mm-dd is appropriate for computer applications, but not communications to human beings of a meeting or other deadline for action by the human (not the computer).  
So we've settled it ????

Ben

From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> on behalf of Mary Lynne Nielsen <m.nielsen@IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 6:10 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [802SEC] reminder - 802 meeting fee increases friday at 11:59PM UTC, not AoE
 

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 9:35 PM Geoff Thompson <thompson@ieee.org> wrote:
Bob-

For my internal use I have evolved over the years to always use YYYY-MM-DD.

1) I don't  particularly care whether the rest of the world follows me or not.
2) The hyphens make the format obvious what is going on and are a legal character in all strings
3) It is of fixed length which is visually useful in lists, especially with fixed pitch fonts
4) It is obvious enough that it is easily parsable, understandable and usable by anyone else
5) It sorts with the result monotonically increasing with time.  Very useful for my archive management.
6) If I were to add a day label (I don't usually) it would be at the end, e.g. 2022-02-23 Wednesday

Geoff

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022, 05:29:32 PM PST, ROBERT GROW <bobgrow@cox.net> wrote:


Andrew,

I ran into the date problem yesterday when I had a slide wishing everyone a "Happy Twosday  (Tuesday, 2/22/22)".  I was fully aware the US commonly used m/d/yy runs contrary to dd/mm/yyyy and other formats.  I got the expected international awareness comments on the numeric date format on my slide.  

We are a standards organization, why should we use ISO 8601? ;-)  The only reason I have is that  2022-03-01 may not be as unambiguous to those not familiar with the ANSI and ISO date standards compared to 01 Mar 2022 (leading 0 optional),  or other conventions that use letters for the Month (as Ben noted), at least for someone that speaks English.  The ISO 8601 option to not use the hyphen delimiter leaves me parsing yesterday's date quite slowly though (20220222).

—Bob


On Feb 23, 2022, at 5:21 PM, Benjamin Rolfe <ben@BLINDCREEK.COM> wrote:

Agree with Roger, we have a documented, unambiguous definition of "Anywhere on Earth".
If we want to use a date format that is not ambiguous, ISO 8601 (YYYY-MM-DD) is not it.  YYYY-MM-DD is as equally "ambiguous" (and confused) as mm/dd/yyyy.  An unamibous format would be to spell out the date using the full name of the month e.g.  "February 22, 2022"  which is unambiguous (in this time-space reference frame and calendar system), as are variations such as "Feb 21, 2022" or "22-Feb-2022" and so on.  Just pointing out the facts. 
But we digress. (and yes, I picked February 22, 2022 for my examples because it's hard to misinterpret this in any format and I like irony). 🙂.
We could just do as we have for decades, relying on the context-sensitive adaptive grey matter of our attendees to parse based on context, e.g. the "March Plenary" will occur in only 1 month out of 12. 
Why not?
Ben


From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> on behalf of Roger Marks <r.b.marks@IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 3:26 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [802SEC] reminder - 802 meeting fee increases friday at 11:59PM UTC, not AoE
 
Andrew,

I fully agree about the date format.

I disagree that AOE is ambiguous. I created AOE so that "the deadline has not passed if, anywhere on earth, the deadline date has not yet passed.” It’s documented here. 

Cheers,

Roger
On Feb 23, 2022, 3:34 PM -0700, Andrew Myles (amyles) <00000b706269bb8b-dmarc-request@listserv.ieee.org>, wrote:

G’day all

 

Whatever we do, we should ensure that the representation is unambiguous (preferably by aligning with an International Standard, like ISO 8601)

 

Despite an apparent motion by the EC, any use of mm/dd/yyyy is ambiguous and confusing in most of the world. AoE is also slightly ambiguous because it does not account for DLS, although it is good enough in practice

 

Andrew

 

From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson
Sent: Thursday, 24 February 2022 4:24 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] reminder - 802 meeting fee increases friday at 11:59PM UTC, not AoE

 

George-

 

How did this happen?

I am under the impression that the EC passed a motion some years ago that all 802 actions (as opposed to IEEE actions) that have a calendar closing date of the format mm/dd/yyyy AOE.

 

I believe we should honor all registrations in that 12 hour period at the lower rate.

 

It is precisely because of this sort of confusion and inconvenience with quoting calendar closing dates that we adopted AoE.

 

Best regards,

 

Geoff Thompson

 
 

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022, 08:35:30 AM PST, George Zimmerman <george@cmephyconsulting.com> wrote:

 
 

All – just a reminder, per the plenary announcement (http://802world.org/plenary/) the meeting fee increases Friday at 11:59PM UTC, not AoE.  I was just on a call where a number of individuals thought it was AoE, so you may wish to remind your groups not to wait until the last minute.

 

Additionally, I can report we currently have almost 850 registrants for the March meeting, and climbing.

 

George Zimmerman, Ph.D.

802 LMSC Treasurer

 

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