Re: [802SEC] Green card cancellations for Vancouver
I am sure I will enjoy a protracted discussion of how we determine
"reasonably"... however, I agree with Jon that our current practice
covers the case that has been brought to our attention.
Given the statement from IEEE, I am uncomfortable with any formal EC
action at this time. I believe discussion of this issue during a formal
EC meeting without formal guidance from IEEE legal is inappropriate
conduct.
Benjamin A. Rolfe (Blind Creek Associates)
On 1/31/2017 11:09 PM, Adrian Stephens wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> The point that I've made a couple of times, and boringly, will
> repeat again, is the following...
>
> A member might not know whether circumstances beyond their control
> would prevent them from attending,
> without spending more than the registration fee cost on a lawyer to
> tell them.
>
> So, if we were going to wordsmith this, I would state: "... when
> they reasonably believe that circumstances ...".
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adrian Stephens
> IEEE 802.11 Working Group Chair
> mailto: adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org
> Phone: +1 (971) 203-2032
> Phone: +447342178905
> Skype: adrian_stephens
>
> On 01/02/2017 00:33, Geoff Thompson wrote:
>> "The Executive Secretary may, at his discretion, fully refund an 802
>> Plenary registration fee when circumstances beyond the registrant's
>> control prevents them from attending after they have registered."
>>
>>
>> Respectfully proposed,
>>
>> Geoff Thompson
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 4:06 PMPST, James Gilb
>>> <000008e8b69871c2-dmarc-request@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>> I agree with your point. We already handle issues for anyone, at
>>> any meeting, who has circumstances beyond their control, that
>>> prevents them from attending after they have registered.
>>>
>>> Trying to exactly word smith this into a rule would be very difficult.
>>>
>>> James Gilb
>>>
>>> On 01/31/2017 08:59 AM, Jon Rosdahl wrote:
>>>> While I am sympathetic to the motion, I don't see the need.
>>>> We have in the past consistently given full refunds for those that
>>>> have
>>>> Visa/migration issues.
>>>> We also have always address Medical emergencies as well without a
>>>> motion of
>>>> the EC.
>>>> The General Policy that we have followed, I Believe, is sufficient to
>>>> address each request for refund.
>>>> I see that trying to regulate good behavior is always fraught with
>>>> wording
>>>> dependencies that someone may feel is enough and yet another wants
>>>> different wording.
>>>> I think that the sentiment from the EC is to be fair and just yet
>>>> merciful
>>>> to the refund process.
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Jon
>>>> IEEE 802 Executive Secretary
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Jon Rosdahl Engineer, Senior Staff
>>>> office: 801-492-4023 Qualcomm Technologies, Inc.
>>>> cell: 801-376-6435 10871 North 5750 West
>>>> Highland, UT 84003
>>>>
>>>> A Job is only necessary to eat!
>>>> A Family is necessary to be happy!!
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Benjamin Rolfe
>>>> <ben@blindcreek.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Using that wording we will issue no refunds. The Whitehouse, INS
>>>>> and State
>>>>> department have all issued "clarifications" which clearly state
>>>>> "green
>>>>> card" holders (permanent residents) are not affected by the EO.
>>>>> Thus there
>>>>> are no "green card holders" which are affected by the EO.
>>>>> I am guessing this is not the point of the motion? My best guess
>>>>> is that
>>>>> we wish to allow people who are afraid that, despite the reality,
>>>>> they may
>>>>> not be allowed re-entry, to cancel without penalty? In which case
>>>>> I would
>>>>> modify the wording:
>>>>>
>>>>> Move that any attendee who has concerns that the immigration
>>>>> policy of the
>>>>> United States or any other nation might prevent re-entry into
>>>>> their country
>>>>> of residence following the march meeting be given a full refund of
>>>>> registration fees upon cancellation.
>>>>>
>>>>> That removes the requirement for 802 to determine who is affected,
>>>>> and is
>>>>> not discriminatory against people residing in the US.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I have no vote, I will state only a preference that the motion be
>>>>> clear, non-discriminatory and within the ability of 802 to execute.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/31/2017 12:49 AM, Adrian Stephens wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you Clint.
>>>>>
>>>>> All - the tentative wording I have for such a motion follows.
>>>>> Comments/corrections welcome.
>>>>> Motion: Move that any US green card holder of a nationality
>>>>> affected by
>>>>> recent US President
>>>>> executive orders who believes they will be prevented from
>>>>> re-entering the
>>>>> USA after the March 2017
>>>>> meeting in Vancouver be given a full refund of registration fees
>>>>> paid on
>>>>> cancellation.
>>>>> Moved: Adrian Stephens
>>>>> Seconded: Clint Chaplin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Adrian Stephens
>>>>> IEEE 802.11 Working Group Chair
>>>>> mailto: adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org
>>>>> Phone: +1 (971) 203-2032 <(971)%20203-2032>
>>>>> Phone: +447342178905 <+44%207342%20178905>
>>>>> Skype: adrian_stephens
>>>>>
>>>>> On 31/01/2017 08:32, Clint Chaplin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I would second such a motion
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Adrian Stephens <
>>>>> adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear EC,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have had one email from an 802 member who is Iranian and a
>>>>>> green card
>>>>>> holder.
>>>>>> He is currently taking legal advice, but believes he should not
>>>>>> travel
>>>>>> to Vancouver because of fear of exclusion from the USA on attempted
>>>>>> re-entry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will make a motion to allow a full refund for such individuals
>>>>>> at the
>>>>>> EC telecon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adrian Stephens
>>>>>> IEEE 802.11 Working Group Chair
>>>>>> mailto: adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org
>>>>>> Phone: +1 (971) 203-2032
>>>>>> Phone: +447342178905
>>>>>> Skype: adrian_stephens
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------
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>>>>>> This list is maintained by Listserv.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Clint Chaplin
>>>>> Principal Standards Engineer
>>>>> Samsung Research America
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.
>>>>>
>>>>>
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