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Re: [802SEC] Is America a suitable venue for 802 meetings?

Jon-

My belief is that it is not feasible to change the March meeting unless we have a catastrophic problem.
I don't believe the current "problem" is of that level.
Thus, I don't think we can or should change the March meeting
I do believe the current executive order is "dynamic".
My expectation is that things will be more stable by the time we get to Vancouver.

So, do address your points
1.  True.  The new border policy may affect both.  By March I hope we know.
2.  I hope it will be more stable by March.
3.  True.  Having an open meeting at a plenary is so we can gather input on that.
4.  Guidance from IEEE and CS should be considered, input from our members should be considered as well, thus the meeting.
5.  I believe it has to be none.  The purpose of the proposed March session is to assist in figuring out where to have meetings in the future.

Geoff


On Jan 30, 2017, at 5:09 PMPST, Jon Rosdahl <jrosdahl@ieee.org> wrote:

While I have put the requested agenda item on the Telecon agenda, I would like us all to step back and ask the question "what will a discussion of this type accomplish?"

1. We have mtgs scheduled through 2019 in and out of the US.

2. The executive order is for 90 days, and depending on the hour, who it effects seems to change.

3. What effect the order has on different people is not just the destination of a meeting, but also for some it affects the ability for getting back to home.

4. The IEEE is preparing guidance, the Computer Society is waiting for that statement before it creates a statement, 802 should wait to hear what they provide to make informed decisions.

5. Finally, we should determine what the actual  impact may be for March, and address what we have control over, but I don't believe a tutorial slot time is needed to do that.

Kind regards,
Jon

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On Jan 30, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Pat Thaler <000006d722d423ba-dmarc-request@ieee.org> wrote:
Here is a link to the full text of the executive order:

Other than scheduling a discussion for the plenary, it difficult to say what this executive order will mean for the conduct of our business. There may be decisions in court or in congress that affect its implementation. 

Several have asked if we know how many of our participants might be affected by the executive order. There may be attendees who are residents of other countries but nationals of the countries listed in the executive order and we don't track that data.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Michael J. Lynch <MJLynch@mjlallc.com> wrote:
All,

At least as of this morning it seems that the administration has exempted green card holders from the previous hassle on re-entry to the US.

BR,

Mike

Sent from my Windows 8.1 Phone
From: Mark Hamilton
Sent: ‎1/‎30/‎2017 12:40

To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Is America a suitable venue for 802 meetings?

At the risk of butting in, a few points I might suggest, to put this in context:

-          Agree with Ben, we need the facts on what actions the U.S. has/is taking, as best as we can at the time of the discussion.  It does seem to be very dynamic, between executive orders and court actions.

-          As Geoff points out, this does/may not only affect members trying to attend meetings in the U.S., but could also affect members who are currently based in the U.S, but fear leaving to attend meetings outside, because they may not be able to get back home.

-          How do any policies enacted recently by the U.S. compare to prior policies, or other countries’ policies?  This is not the first or only situation where some countries, including the U.S., block (or least make very difficult) entry for nationals from certain other countries.  Perhaps this one is more directly affecting our membership – but we need to have a more complete view to treat this objectively.


Mark

 

From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Shellhammer, Steve
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 11:09 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Is America a suitable venue for 802 meetings?

 

Do we have a list of which IEEE 802 members cannot attend meetings in the US as a result of this order?

 

Steve

 

From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Stephens
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 9:59 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Is America a suitable venue for 802 meetings?

 

Hello Ben,

I'm not exactly sure (after all,  I'm not a US citizen),  but I think the executive order that might be relevant is:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/27/executive-order-protecting-nation-foreign-terrorist-entry-united-states

Best Regards,
 
Adrian Stephens
IEEE 802.11 Working Group Chair
mailto: adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org
Phone: +1 (971) 203-2032
Phone: +447342178905
Skype: adrian_stephens

On 30/01/2017 17:35, Benjamin Rolfe wrote:

Would someone post a link to the source material (the executive order) being discussed? I feel strongly that venue decisions should be made on facts, not political reactions, and would like to study the facts prior to the discussion and/or contributing an opinion.

Thanks

Ben

 

On 1/29/2017 7:30 PM, Geoff Thompson wrote:

Colleagues-

 

I suggest that we add an agenda item to the EC phone call next week.

Subject:  Motion to have an EC open discussion session in a Monday tutorial time slot

on the subject of appropriate meeting venues given possible forthcoming restrictions on travel

 

Geoff

 

On Jan 29, 2017, at 7:07 PMPST, Roger Marks <r.b.marks@ieee.org> wrote:

 

I agree and support the suggestion of a tutorial slot. The participants will be interested in an airing of various approaches and the implications.


Regards,

 

Roger


On Jan 29, 2017, 7:46 PM -0700, Pat Thaler <000006d722d423ba-dmarc-request@ieee.org>, wrote:

I think we do need to discuss this. The suggestion of a March tutorial slot is good (though it doesn't leave time to change May meetings if that was even possible). 

 

The stay by the judge was only for part of the executive order.. What was blocked was deporting the people who are at airports now (with visas, green cards, etc.)  The stay doesn't require letting them into the country, so they may be in limbo held at the airport until it is worked out.

 

As far as I've heard, there hasn't been any stay on the part about not issuing visas.

 
 
 

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Geoff Thompson <thompson@ieee.org> wrote:

Adrian-

 

The situation is, unfortunately, more complicated than that.

 

(BTW, your subject line is incorrect.  The March plenary is in "America" but not in the US.  It is sort of like the difference between Britain and England.)

 

The President's order has been stayed by a Federal Court ruling (that's good). So it has no effect in the short term.  Long term remains to be seen.

 

Moving our meetings to outside the US will not solve things under the current order of the President.  That is because US residents with "Green Cards" (i.e. a lawful permanent resident of the USA) apparently cannot re-enter the US under the order.  Thus any member of 802 who is caught up in this mess may not be able to travel to a non-US 802 meeting and then return home.  Thus we may be damned either way.

 

More good news is that the initial measure was only for 90 days.  The bad news is that we have no idea what the follow-up orders might be.

 

I agree that the question should be open for discussion.  My question would be the venue for that discussion.  I don't think the EC reflector or the EC phone call is sufficiently open.  It is not appropriate for a regular 802 EC meeting because of the time constraints imposed by our regular business.  My suggestion would be a special session in one of the Monday evening tutorial slots.  That should allow for full (non-conflicted) participation by all interested parties.  That would fully satisfy our very real commitment to openness  Whether any such discussion can come up with a satisfactory solution proposal is a different question.

 

Sincerely,

 

Geoff

 

Geoffrey O. Thompson

IEEE 802 Executive Committee

GraCaSI Standards Advisors

Mountain View, CA 94043-5286

 

On Jan 29, 2017, at 1:24 AMPST, Adrian Stephens <adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org> wrote:

 

Dear colleagues,

Now that the USA discriminates about who can enter the country based on their country of birth,
we may have members or potential meeting attendees who cannot attend meetings of IEEE 802
because of that discrimination.

I raise the question for discussion as to whether it is appropriate to hold IEEE 802 meetings
in the USA while this policy is in effect,  given that one of the pillars of the IEEE-SA is
open participation.

--  
Best Regards,
 
Adrian Stephens
IEEE 802.11 Working Group Chair
mailto: adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org
Phone: +1 (971) 203-2032
Phone: +447342178905
Skype: adrian_stephens

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