Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization
Colleagues,
The 802 rules already allow groups to meet Tuesday night - Monday night is the only case where it says that WGs shouldn't meet in conflict. And we don't have any restriction on meeting in parallel with the social. In fact, in the pre-laptop days when our operation was less efficient, I have run a task group meeting that way just allowing a short break for people to get some social food and then back to work. <insert whip crack sound here>
However, I would like to add a note of caution about regularly planning on having meetings run Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday evenings. In cases where that has been necessary, I have found that three or four days of meeting 12 hours or so per day wears most people pretty thin. Temper tantrums and blow-ups become much more common - I doubt that it will be practical to plan on running in that mode all the time. One extended day in the week - such as running Thursday night is workable. 3 isn't.
I have a similar issue with moving the closing EC meeting to Friday 7 or 8 PM to midnight.
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Carl R. Stevenson
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 12:14 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization
David,
The closing EC meeting form 1-6 pm on Friday already gives the WGs (that
choose to use it) AM1 and AM2 on Friday.
802.22 meets during those Friday am slots.
Carl
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org
> [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org] On Behalf Of David_Law@3com.com
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 1:02 PM
> To: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****;
> STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> What is proposed here would give the WGs approximately 1.5
> hours extra
> daytime meeting time Monday - allowing the WG to start at
> 10:30AM - and
> two extra evenings - eliminate Tuesday tutorial and the
> Wednesday social -
> which is a start.
>
> I however still think we should consider [1] moving the Opening EC to
> Sunday evening to allow a full day of WG meetings Monday
> and/or [2] moving
> the closing EC to allow a half day of WG meetings Friday
> morning. Allowing
> WGs to meet Friday morning would also make Thursday evening
> available for
> WG meetings - and I would suggest that might be a better
> approach rather
> than eliminating the Tuesday tutorial or the social.
>
> I do realize that what I suggest places a greater burden on all-ready
> overworked EC members, but I believe we should do everything
> possible to
> allow the WGs the maximum time to do work.
>
> Best regards,
> David
>
>
>
> ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org>
> wrote on 18/10/2008 13:56:42:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:
> > STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Shellhammer, Steve
> > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:01 PM
> > To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> > Subject: Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I am NOT in favor of the following,
> >
> > 1. Moving Monday EC meeting to Sunday
> > 2. Moving Friday meeting to Thursday night
> >
> > However, I agree with some other ideas,
> >
> > 1. Eliminate the 802 plenary and shorten the Monday EC meeting.
> > Get everything done by 10 AM so the WG's can start by 10:30 AM.
> >
> > 2. Eliminate the social.
> >
> > 3. Go from one night for Tutorials. Alternatively, make a
> > deadline of 35 days before the meeting to commit to tutorials. That
> > way if we only have one night worth of tutorials we can give Tuesday
> > to the WGs. They would know 35 days in advance and could plan
> > accordingly. They could get their agendas out 30 days in advance.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:
> > STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of J Lemon
> > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 4:10 PM
> > To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> > Subject: Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization
> >
> > Tony,
> >
> > As I mentioned when I brought up the general topic some months back:
> >
> > * I believe that Monday mornings are not being used very
> > effectively. I think we could probably shorten the EC opening
> > meeting, and we could definitely drop the 802 plenary meeting
> > altogether.
> > * We already have too little time on Fridays.
> Decreasing our time,
> > and moving it into the sleeping time of some members
> would make
> > the problem worse than it already is. I would rather
> have the EC
> > meetings start Monday morning, and hopefully end
> early afternoon.
> > * I see the cost/benefit ratio of the Wednesday socials to be
> > heavily skewed towards the costs exceeding the
> benefits. I would
> > be quite happy to see this disappear.
> > * I tend to lose two weekends for most 802 plenaries. If it were
> > possibly to lose only one weekend, I would be much
> happier. So, I
> > would be fine with moving the Monday EC meeting to Sundays,
> > leaving all of Monday for WG meetings, and running
> the Friday EC
> > meeting from 08:00 or 09:00 until around 15:00.
> >
> >
> > jl
> >
> > On 10/16/2008 1:47 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
> > > Colleauges -
> > >
> > > Given the not inconsiderable workload that some working groups are
> > attempting to tackle, I
> > > feel it is worth re-visiting once again the question of how we
> > organize our Plenaries to
> > > maximize the time available for useful technical work (which I
> > believe, when all is said
> > > and done, is why we have these meetings in the first place). At
> > present, with the existing
> > > meeting format, I get 2 ½ clear days of Task Group meetings; that
> > is rather less than we
> > > need for effective progress. I am reluctant to move the closing
> > 802.1 plenary to Friday
> > > morning (as some WGs have done) with the present format, because
> > firstly I doubt we would
> > > get the right level of attendance to conduct effective business,
> > given that there would
> > > not be technical meetings that day, and secondly it would leave me
> > with no time for
> > > preparation for the closing EC meeting.
> > >
> > > So how can this be fixed?
> > >
> > > Firstly, Monday mornings at Plenary sessions are largely a no-op
> > in my view. I don't think
> > > that the format of the Monday morning plenary meeting is useful to
> > the majority of
> > > attendees, and if it didn't happen, I don't believe there are many
> > attendees that would
> > > miss it at all. If it wasn't there, we could start our WG opening
> > plenaries before lunch
> > > and in my case, we could be off and running with Task Group
> > meetings by early-mid
> > > afternoon.
> > >
> > > Secondly, we could make the radical move to take the opening EC
> > meeting out of the
> > > "working week" altogether, by holding it on the Sunday evening. We
> > already have a Sunday
> > > PM rules meeting; maybe putting the two together on the Sunday
> > evening would help us to
> > > crispen up both activities. Again, this would help free up Monday
> > time for WG activity.
> > >
> > > Thirdly, although for some EC members, holding the closing EC on
> > Friday afternoon helps
> > > with their travel plans, for others of us it creates a
> double whammy:
> > >
> > > 1) We have to stay over until Saturday anyway, because even a
> > 6PM close is too late
> > > to get away on the Friday evening; and
> > > 2) The fact that the closing meeting is in the afternoon makes
> > it difficult to make
> > > sensible use of Friday morning (see opening para - we need some
> > time to prepare stuff for
> > > the EC meeting following our closing WG Plenaries, and holding a
> > short Plenary on Friday
> > > morning is a guarantee of low attendance).
> > >
> > > So I would advocate moving the EC meeting to the 7pm-midnight slot
> > on Friday evening,
> > > freeing up most of Friday for WG business - finishing the WG
> > closing plenary at (say) 3pm
> > > would still allow us to get straight for the EC meeting, but would
> > also give us an extra
> > > morning or part-morning for task group work.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Tony
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------
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> > reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.
> > >
> > >
> >
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