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Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules



Tony

That makes sense. Right now, we only discuss maintaining membership and we do not explicitly state that failing to maintain membership results in losing membership but maintaining current participation credits.

Likewise, we don't explicitly state in Loss that this results in loss of participation credit for prior sessions (it is implied, but not explicitly stated). Geoff's text is a good start and we can get this cleaned up by the end of July (unfortunately, we can't get it done any sooner).

James Gilb

On 02/24/2014 04:40 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
Hi Rick -

The point is that as currently written, there is no clear statement that
failing the retention criteria results in loss of voting status. So right
now, I believe anyone losing voting rights due to non attendance would have
a good case for appeal. So adding such a statement might possibly be a good
plan.

Regards,
Tony


On 24 February 2014 11:31, Rick Alfvin <ralfvin@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Adrian,
Unfortunately it's not always that simple with the algorithm we use.  It
is possible for a nearly member to become a voting member at the beginning
of a plenary and attend less them 75% of that session and lose their newly
gained voting rights at the close of that plenary. Hence they would become
an observer not an aspirant.

What I'm saying is that there is no need for a special loss clause for
non-attendance. We simply always apply the algorithm to determine a
person's status, which may fluctuate from session to session.

-Rick Alfvin
Sent from my iPhone 5s

On Feb 24, 2014, at 2:00 AM, "Stephens, Adrian P" <
Adrian.P.Stephens@INTEL.COM> wrote:

  Hello Geoffrey and all,



These changes are an improvement to clarity.   But they still don’t
explicitly address the loss due to non-attendance.

The “Loss” subclause is related solely to loss by non-return of ballots,
but the heading implies its scope is broader than that.

Also we should cover the commonest case first.



IMHO the “Loss” subclause should state:



1.       Loss due to non-attendance results in transition to aspirant (1
attendance in last 4 plenaries/interims) or non-voter (no attendances in
last 4 plenaries/interims)

2.       Loss due to non-return of ballots results in transition to
observer and loss of attendances.

3.       Loss due to non-payment of registration results in transition to
observer and loss of attendances.



Or it should narrow its scope in the heading.



Best Regards,



Adrian P STEPHENS



Tel: +44 (1793) 404825 (office)
Tel: +44 (7920) 084 900 (mobile,  UK)

Tel: +1 (408) 2397485 (mobile, USA)



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*From:* ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [
mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org <STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org>] *On Behalf Of *Geoff
Thompson
*Sent:* 22 February 2014 23:30
*To:* STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules



James, Colleagues-



I never thought that there was a problem with the rules as stated, but
then my tenure as chair was back when we were less concerned about cross-WG
uniformity of rules and such items were more at the hands of individual WG
Chairs.



I have just reviewed the relevant WG P&P text, to wit:



7.2.2. Retention

Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the last four
plenary sessions. One duly constituted recent interim WG or task group
session may be substituted for one of the two plenary sessions.



7.2.3. Loss

Excepting recirculation letter ballots membership may be lost if two of
the last three WG letter ballots are not returned, or are returned with an
abstention for other than “lack of technical expertise.” This rule may be
excused by the WG Chair if the individual is otherwise an active
participant. If lost per this subclause, membership is re-established as if
the person were a new candidate member.



I believe that it could be improved and more clearly meet what I believe
are the intentions with the following changes. I believe these changes are
only changes in wording, not intended meaning:



7.2.2. Retention

Membership is retained by participating by *as indicated by the required
level of registered attendance* in at least two of the last four plenary
sessions *and by participating in WG letter ballots*. O*Registered
attendance at o*ne duly constituted recent interim WG or task group
session may be substituted for one of the two plenary sessions.



7.2.3. Loss

Excepting recirculation letter ballots membership may be lost if two of
the last three WG letter ballots are not returned, or are returned with an
abstention for other than “lack of technical expertise.” This rule may be
excused by the WG Chair if the individual is otherwise an active
participant. If lost per this subclause, membership *participation credit
by attendance is reset to zero.* is re-established as if the person were
a new candidate member.



Best regards,



             Geoff





On Feb 22, 2014, at 11:23 AM, James P. K. Gilb wrote:



   All

As I thought about this on Friday, I came to a similar conclusion as Roger.

Under 7.2.1, the individual in question has achieved "participation
credit" for July 2013 and January 2014.  AFAIK, there is no controversy
concerning that conclusion.

So, the only question is this:  What are the situations under which
"participation credit" for a session can be removed?

I know of only two (thanks Jon for finding the other one):

IEEE LMSC OM 5.4 - Due to failure to "comply with the registration
requirements for that session, and further has not complied with those
requirements within 60 days after the end of the session, including payment
of any required registration fees,"

IEEE LMSC WG P&P 7.2.3 - If 'two of the last three WG letter ballots are
not returned, or are returned with an abstention for other than “lack of
technical expertise.”'

I can find no other rule that allows a WG to take away participation
credit earned for a session.

James Gilb

On 02/21/2014 01:53 PM, Roger Marks wrote:

  Adrian,



  As I understand, you are discussing membership retention and loss based

  only on participation. In other words, your question presumes that the

  individual has met all other obligations (balloting, fees, ...). I'll

  share my views based on that understanding.



  Subclause 7.2.1 states the conditions for establishing membership. An

  individual who meets those conditions has a right to be granted

  membership. The rules do not provide for WG officials to override the

  individual's membership rights; for example, by declaring that some

  session participation will be ignored on the grounds that the individual

  has recently lost membership.



  I don't see any ambiguity on this in the rules.



  Regards,



  Roger

  Stephens, Adrian P <mailto:Adrian.P.Stephens@INTEL.COM<Adrian.P.Stephens@INTEL.COM>


   21 February 2014 12:34 AM



   Dear SEC,



   If you are responsible for maintaining voting status for your WG,

   please respond to the



   question at the end of this email.



   A query by an 802.11 member causes me to question how I've interpreted

   the WG P&P regarding



   loss of membership through non-attendance.



   The WG P&P State: (my highlight)



   7.2.2. Retention



   Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the last

   four plenary sessions. One duly



   constituted interim WG or task group session may be substituted for

   one of the two plenary



   sessions.



   7.2.3. Loss



   Excepting recirculation letter ballots membership may be lost if two

   of the last three WG letter



   ballots are not returned, or are returned with an abstention for other

   than "lack of technical



   expertise." This rule may be excused by the WG Chair if the individual

   is otherwise an active



   participant. If lost per this subclause, membership is re-established

   as if the person were a new



   candidate member.



   It describes how to retain membership by participation,  but does not

   state what happens



   if the member fails to maintain membership.    In the case of failure

   to return ballots,  it is



   explicit that the member is reset as though a new member.



   So,  the rules are ambiguous.   You could interpolate a rule similar

   to the highlighted case



   for non-attendance (which I have unconsciously done in 802.11).  In

   doing so,  I am following



   previous 802.11 vice chairs' interpretation.



   We have a member with the following attendances



   03 2013 - No (plenary)



   05 2013 - No (interim)



   07 2013 - Yes (plenary)



   09 2013 - No (interim)



   11 2013 - No (plenary)  (loses voting rights)



   01 2013 - Yes (interim)



   03 2013 - Yes (plenary)



   According to the "everything reset" interpretation,  the member is an

   aspirant at the



   start of march.   According to the "2 in last 4 plenaries, regardless

   of loss of voting rights in this period"



   interpretation,  he is a potential voter.



   The implication of the "does not reset" interpretation is that a

   member never transitions to non-member



   directly,  but always transitions first to aspirant.  And then later

   transitions to non-member.



   IMHO, your working groups must be operating one of the following two

   rules:



   1.Resets to non-member,  loses previous attendances



   2.Reverts to aspirant,  keeps previous attendances for future gain to

   voting member.



   Please let me know of these rule you are operating.   If it turns out

   we're all doing the same thing,  we should



   put that in the WG P&P.



   Best Regards,



   Adrian P STEPHENS



   Tel: +44 (1793) 404825 (office)

   Tel: +44 (7920) 084 900 (mobile,  UK)



   Tel: +1 (408) 2397485 (mobile, USA)



   ----------------------------------------------

   Intel Corporation (UK) Limited

   Registered No. 1134945 (England)

   Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ

   VAT No: 860 2173 47



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