Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules

[Pat Thaler <pthaler@BROADCOM.COM>]

As far as I can tell, Tony only gave that opinion for a voter that had lost voting rights due to failure to vote on letter ballots. We just got our wires crossed for a bit with some answering for letter ballot loss and some for attendance loss of voting rights.

 

I think the current status of the debate is that we all believe that:

·         past attendance credit is void when one loses voting rights due to non-participation on letter ballots.

·         past attendance credit remains when one loses voting rights because of lack of attendance (i.e. one had attended 1 out of the last 4 meetings.

 

Is there anyone that disagrees with that?

 

And yes (responding to James and Geoff),  the rules do give the chair to grant voting rights to someone who doesn’t meet the minimum requirements. I’ve done it myself for someone who missed more meetings than allowed due to a health issue and I know of at least one case where a chair does it for someone who provides support to the Working Group but doesn’t travel to meetings. But IMO (and I make no claims to humbleness) those cases should be rare.  The person I granted rights to went on being unable to attend and wasn’t participating otherwise so when he didn’t attend again I didn’t extend his voting rights.

 

Regards,

Pat

 

 

From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:52 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules

 

Hello Roger,

 

To clarify, you are assuming the “soft landing” position.    In this the member transitions from voter to aspirant,  rather than voter to observer.

 

On the “non ambiguity” front,   a rule is IMHO ambiguous if apparently competent people come up with a different interpretation of that rule.   Of course,  individuals may declare

the rule to be non-ambiguous, and their interpretation to be correct :0).

 

Tony and myself read the rules to mean a “hard landing” (voter -> observer).  So far the other respondents have read the rules to mean a soft landing.  Does anybody else use the “hard landing” interpretation?

 

I must admit I didn’t previously give it a lot of thought,  but I think there is merit in the soft landing approach.

 

Best Regards,

 

Adrian P STEPHENS

Office: +44 (1793) 404 825

Mobile: +44 (7920) 084900

USA Mobile: +1 (408) 239 7485

 

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From: Roger Marks [mailto:r.b.marks@ieee.org]
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 1:54 PM
To: Stephens, Adrian P
Cc: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules

 

Adrian,

As I understand, you are discussing membership retention and loss based only on participation. In other words, your question presumes that the individual has met all other obligations (balloting, fees, ...). I'll share my views based on that understanding.

Subclause 7.2.1 states the conditions for establishing membership. An individual who meets those conditions has a right to be granted membership. The rules do not provide for WG officials to override the individual's membership rights; for example, by declaring that some session participation will be ignored on the grounds that the individual has recently lost membership.

I don't see any ambiguity on this in the rules.

Regards,

Roger

Stephens, Adrian P

21 February 2014 12:34 AM

Dear SEC,

 

If you are responsible for maintaining voting status for your WG, please respond to the

question at the end of this email.

 

A query by an 802.11 member causes me to question how I’ve interpreted the WG P&P regarding

loss of membership through non-attendance.

 

The WG P&P State: (my highlight)

 

7.2.2. Retention

Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the last four plenary sessions. One duly

constituted interim WG or task group session may be substituted for one of the two plenary

sessions.

 

7.2.3. Loss

Excepting recirculation letter ballots membership may be lost if two of the last three WG letter

ballots are not returned, or are returned with an abstention for other than “lack of technical

expertise.” This rule may be excused by the WG Chair if the individual is otherwise an active

participant. If lost per this subclause, membership is re-established as if the person were a new

candidate member.

 

 

It describes how to retain membership by participation,  but does not state what happens

if the member fails to maintain membership.    In the case of failure to return ballots,  it is

explicit that the member is reset as though a new member.

 

So,  the rules are ambiguous.   You could interpolate a rule similar to the highlighted case

for non-attendance (which I have unconsciously done in 802.11).  In doing so,  I am following

previous 802.11 vice chairs’ interpretation.

 

We have a member with the following attendances

03 2013 - No (plenary)

05 2013 - No (interim)

07 2013 - Yes (plenary)

09 2013 - No (interim)

11 2013 - No (plenary)  (loses voting rights)

01 2013 - Yes (interim)

03 2013 - Yes (plenary)

 

According to the “everything reset” interpretation,  the member is an aspirant at the

start of march.   According to the “2 in last 4 plenaries, regardless of loss of voting rights in this period”

interpretation,  he is a potential voter.

 

The implication of the “does not reset” interpretation is that a member never transitions to non-member

directly,  but always transitions first to aspirant.  And then later transitions to non-member.

 

 

IMHO, your working groups must be operating one of the following two rules:

1.       Resets to non-member,  loses previous attendances

2.       Reverts to aspirant,  keeps previous attendances for future gain to voting member.

 

Please let me know of these rule you are operating.   If it turns out we’re all doing the same thing,  we should

put that in the WG P&P. 

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Adrian P STEPHENS

 

Tel: +44 (1793) 404825 (office)
Tel: +44 (7920) 084 900 (mobile,  UK)

Tel: +1 (408) 2397485 (mobile, USA)

 

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Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

 

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