Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules

I like your first suggestion. Just changing the loss title would still leave the problem that the consequences of failure to meet the retention requirements are not stated explicitly.

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On 24 Feb 2014 07:00, "Stephens, Adrian P" <Adrian.P.Stephens@intel.com> wrote:

Hello Geoffrey and all,

These changes are an improvement to clarity.   But they still don’t explicitly address the loss due to non-attendance.

The “Loss” subclause is related solely to loss by non-return of ballots, but the heading implies its scope is broader than that.

Also we should cover the commonest case first.

IMHO the “Loss” subclause should state:

1.       Loss due to non-attendance results in transition to aspirant (1 attendance in last 4 plenaries/interims) or non-voter (no attendances in last 4 plenaries/interims)

2.       Loss due to non-return of ballots results in transition to observer and loss of attendances.

3.       Loss due to non-payment of registration results in transition to observer and loss of attendances.

Or it should narrow its scope in the heading.

Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 (1793) 404825 (office)
Tel: +44 (7920) 084 900 (mobile, UK)

Tel: +1 (408) 2397485 (mobile, USA)

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From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson
Sent: 22 February 2014 23:30
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules

James, Colleagues-

I never thought that there was a problem with the rules as stated, but then my tenure as chair was back when we were less concerned about cross-WG uniformity of rules and such items were more at the hands of individual WG Chairs.

I have just reviewed the relevant WG P&P text, to wit:

7.2.2. Retention

Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the last four plenary sessions. One duly constituted recent interim WG or task group session may be substituted for one of the two plenary sessions.

7.2.3. Loss

Excepting recirculation letter ballots membership may be lost if two of the last three WG letter ballots are not returned, or are returned with an abstention for other than “lack of technical expertise.” This rule may be excused by the WG Chair if the individual is otherwise an active participant. If lost per this subclause, membership is re-established as if the person were a new candidate member.

I believe that it could be improved and more clearly meet what I believe are the intentions with the following changes. I believe these changes are only changes in wording, not intended meaning:

7.2.2. Retention

Membership is retained by participating by as indicated by the required level of registered attendance in at least two of the last four plenary sessions and by participating in WG letter ballots. ORegistered attendance at one duly constituted recent interim WG or task group session may be substituted for one of the two plenary sessions.

7.2.3. Loss

Excepting recirculation letter ballots membership may be lost if two of the last three WG letter ballots are not returned, or are returned with an abstention for other than “lack of technical expertise.” This rule may be excused by the WG Chair if the individual is otherwise an active participant. If lost per this subclause, membership participation credit by attendance is reset to zero. ~~is re-established as if the person were a new candidate member~~.

Best regards,

            Geoff

On Feb 22, 2014, at 11:23 AM, James P. K. Gilb wrote:

All

As I thought about this on Friday, I came to a similar conclusion as Roger.

Under 7.2.1, the individual in question has achieved "participation credit" for July 2013 and January 2014. AFAIK, there is no controversy concerning that conclusion.

So, the only question is this: What are the situations under which "participation credit" for a session can be removed?

I know of only two (thanks Jon for finding the other one):

IEEE LMSC OM 5.4 - Due to failure to "comply with the registration requirements for that session, and further has not complied with those requirements within 60 days after the end of the session, including payment of any required registration fees,"

IEEE LMSC WG P&P 7.2.3 - If 'two of the last three WG letter ballots are not returned, or are returned with an abstention for other than “lack of technical expertise.”'

I can find no other rule that allows a WG to take away participation credit earned for a session.

James Gilb

On 02/21/2014 01:53 PM, Roger Marks wrote:

Adrian,

As I understand, you are discussing membership retention and loss based

only on participation. In other words, your question presumes that the

individual has met all other obligations (balloting, fees, ...). I'll

share my views based on that understanding.

Subclause 7.2.1 states the conditions for establishing membership. An

individual who meets those conditions has a right to be granted

membership. The rules do not provide for WG officials to override the

individual's membership rights; for example, by declaring that some

session participation will be ignored on the grounds that the individual

has recently lost membership.

I don't see any ambiguity on this in the rules.

Regards,

Roger

Stephens, Adrian P <mailto:Adrian.P.Stephens@INTEL.COM>

21 February 2014 12:34 AM

Dear SEC,

If you are responsible for maintaining voting status for your WG,

please respond to the

question at the end of this email.

A query by an 802.11 member causes me to question how I've interpreted

the WG P&P regarding

loss of membership through non-attendance.

The WG P&P State: (my highlight)

7.2.2. Retention

Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the last

four plenary sessions. One duly

constituted interim WG or task group session may be substituted for

one of the two plenary

sessions.

7.2.3. Loss

Excepting recirculation letter ballots membership may be lost if two

of the last three WG letter

ballots are not returned, or are returned with an abstention for other

than "lack of technical

expertise." This rule may be excused by the WG Chair if the individual

is otherwise an active

participant. If lost per this subclause, membership is re-established

as if the person were a new

candidate member.

It describes how to retain membership by participation, but does not

state what happens

if the member fails to maintain membership.    In the case of failure

to return ballots, it is

explicit that the member is reset as though a new member.

So, the rules are ambiguous.   You could interpolate a rule similar

to the highlighted case

for non-attendance (which I have unconsciously done in 802.11). In

doing so, I am following

previous 802.11 vice chairs' interpretation.

We have a member with the following attendances

03 2013 - No (plenary)

05 2013 - No (interim)

07 2013 - Yes (plenary)

09 2013 - No (interim)

11 2013 - No (plenary) (loses voting rights)

01 2013 - Yes (interim)

03 2013 - Yes (plenary)

According to the "everything reset" interpretation, the member is an

aspirant at the

start of march.   According to the "2 in last 4 plenaries, regardless

of loss of voting rights in this period"

interpretation, he is a potential voter.

The implication of the "does not reset" interpretation is that a

member never transitions to non-member

directly, but always transitions first to aspirant. And then later

transitions to non-member.

IMHO, your working groups must be operating one of the following two

rules:

1.Resets to non-member, loses previous attendances

2.Reverts to aspirant, keeps previous attendances for future gain to

voting member.

Please let me know of these rule you are operating.   If it turns out

we're all doing the same thing, we should

put that in the WG P&P.

Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 (1793) 404825 (office)

Tel: +44 (7920) 084 900 (mobile, UK)

Tel: +1 (408) 2397485 (mobile, USA)

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Intel Corporation (UK) Limited

Registered No. 1134945 (England)

Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ

VAT No: 860 2173 47

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