Hi Jon, I certainly agree with your points. I believe it is also useful
to explain why there is such a huge cost differential between the cost of
rooms plus meeting space and the cost of meeting space alone. The whole
purpose for having the meeting space in the first place is to help sell all
of the rooms. If you try to buy the meeting space without the rooms the
hotel will automatically assume that it will not be able to sell some
significant portion of the rooms so the cost of those unsold rooms will be
added on to the cost of the meeting space. For large groups that need lots
of meeting space like we do, this can be a very sizable expense indeed as
you have pointed out with your excellent example. So that is exactly why
the proposals to separate the meeting cost from the rooms costs don't
work-out or produce savings. Failure to sell enough hotel rooms inflates
the cost of the meeting space exponentially and you wind up paying huge
extra premiums. This is a subtle point that is sometimes hard to see but a
simple explanation can sometimes help to make the choices we make more
understandable for those who will listen.
Thanx, Buzz
Please note my contact info:
Dr. Everett O (Buzz) Rigsbee
Executive Secretary, IEEE-802 LMSC
7750 80th Place SE
Mercer Island, WA 98040-5912
ph/fx: 206-236-2229
cell: 206-818-4978
SkypeID: BRigsB
BRigsB@ieee.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org] On
Behalf Of Jon Rosdahl
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:45 AM
To: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA); STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Hotel problem
Hi Buzz,
There are two things that are playing out at the same time.
There is the registration discount for paying early, and then the "zapping"
for not staying at the venue hotel.
I presented these details to the 802.11 WG last month at our meeting, and
for the most part was fairly well received.
The problem comes in how do you justify the difference in prices.
It does make a difference to most people if you tell them they get a
discount as apposed to a service fee.
We (802.11/802/15 joint Treasures) presented our financial numbers in a way
to help people see the incremental costs of late registration.
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/10/11-10-0074-01-0000-treasurer-report-ja
nuary-2010.ppt
The "discount" for paying early is very important for getting folks to pay
early. We see a spike on the day of the deadline for each step of the
registration fee.
The "Zapping" fee (Surcharge) can be explained with a good simple example:
For the Wireless Meeting, if we had not had a room block,
we would have had to pay $550,000 for the rental costs just for the
rooms, breaks, lunch == about $1200 per person.
See slides 14-17 of a presentation I gave to try to explain the issues.
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/10/11-10-0076-01-0000-first-vice-chair-re
port-january-2010.ppt
due to meeting our room block, we did not have to pay the $400,000 for
meeting space.
We also are able to show on the Treasury report that we got "credits" for
having met our commitment.
I do not dispute that it is half a dozen of this verses half a dozen of
that, but I have found that people do find the positive light description
more palatable. I think that (as you noted) once we explain the rationale,
that most people are generally understanding and in some case grateful to
have the "surcharge" (mtg space service fee) to help justify staying at the
venue hotel.
I do believe that when you purchase most things, there are discounts and
service charges.
We should find a way to describe the process in way that is factual and
positive to help people understand the costs and fees that are charged are
necessary as we all are working hard to keep to the budgets balanced and the
expenses to a minimum.
My .02,
Jon
802.11 Treasurer
802.11 WG Vice-Chair
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)"<matthew.sherman@BAESYSTEMS.COM>
To:<STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Hotel problem
Buzz,
I'm not sure "zapping" people for not staying in the contracted hotel is
the right way to present it. Yes everyone should pay their fair share,
and you have built part of the meeting costs into the room costs. People
who stay at other hotels may not even be aware of this fact so I would not
assume they are trying to avoid paying their fair share. I'm also okay
with Ivan's suggestion of fully separating the room and meeting costs.
But it may work out cheaper from the group in the long run to combine
them. If so, I still believe a softer sell is required with very clear
explanation of our rationale for why we have different registration fees
for the different hotel option.
The main thing is I think we need more discussion on this.
Mat
Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Engineering Fellow
BAE Systems - Electronics, Intelligence,& Support (EI&S)
Office: +1 973.633.6344
Cell: +1 973.229.9520
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee [mailto:BRigsBieee@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 3:31 PM
To: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA); BRigsB@ieee.org;
STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Hotel problem
Hi Matt, I guess I don't see the gain. If we start out by telling
folks
that the registration fees are $700, $800, and $900 but that you get a
$300
"discount" if you stay at our 802-contracted hotel, I think you'll get
more
folks who are mad as hell that we are raising the registration fees by a
huge amount when we already have a large surplus. But in either case it
works out to the exact same thing so it's just 6 of one, half dozen of the
other.
Besides, I dislike playing games with semantics to fool people into
thinking
they are getting something they are not. The intention is to ZAP folks
for
not staying in our contracted hotels so they pay their fair share of the
meeting expenses and so they hopefully decide to stop doing that. Let's
just call a spade, a spade. :-)
Thanx, Buzz
Please note my contact info:
Dr. Everett O (Buzz) Rigsbee
Executive Secretary, IEEE-802 LMSC
7750 80th Place SE
Mercer Island, WA 98040-5912
ph/fx: 206-236-2229
cell: 206-818-4978
SkypeID: BRigsB
BRigsB@ieee.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA) [mailto:matthew.sherman@baesystems.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 10:26 AM
To: BRigsB@ieee.org; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Hotel problem
Buzz,
While a "surcharge" may have been approved, I agree with Bruce that
presenting it as a 'discount' may make it more positive and palatable in
the
eyes of our attendees. It also shifts the default position from "don't
have
to pay" to "have to pay" which may work in our favor as well. Perhaps we
can consider this at the March meeting?
Mat
Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Engineering Fellow
BAE Systems - Electronics, Intelligence,& Support (EI&S)
Office: +1 973.633.6344
Cell: +1 973.229.9520
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 1:20 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Hotel problem
Hi Bruce, I'm sorry if you misunderstood the proposal but if you will
look at the attached motion which was voted, it clearly does indicate "a
surcharge of $300" will be applied for those not staying on the
802-contracted hotel.
If you would prefer to explain it as a "discount for those staying in the
802-contracted hotel" that's OK with me but that's a much larger set of
people. Our goal of course is to minimize the number subject to the
surcharge, and the evidence from the Wireless Interim meetings and the
802.3
Interims is that it works very well. I would be very happy to sit down
and
explain the proposal to any who have concerns during the March Plenary if
you think that would help. But I don't think changing the wording of the
proposal will make any difference because the result will be the same
either
way.
I know it sounds harsh and unfair at first blush but upon explanation it
actually makes a lot of sense, and several people have indicated that it
actually solved the problem they were having with their company trying to
switch them to other hotels by making it no longer economically
beneficial.
You can call me if you want to discuss it further at my numbers below.
Thanx, Buzz
Please note my contact info:
Dr. Everett O (Buzz) Rigsbee
Executive Secretary, IEEE-802 LMSC
7750 80th Place SE
Mercer Island, WA 98040-5912
ph/fx: 206-236-2229
cell: 206-818-4978
SkypeID: BRigsB
BRigsB@ieee.org
From: Bruce Kraemer [mailto:bkraemer@marvell.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 4:57 AM
To: BRigsB@ieee.org; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Cc: Paul Nikolich; James Gilb; Stephens, Adrian P; Jon Rosdahl
Subject: Hotel problem
Buzz,
You are causing me a big problem on a sensitive topic. Adrian noted that
your message reads:
A $300 US surcharge will be added to the registration fee for those
attendees not booking and staying in the 802-
contracted hotel(s); Caribe Royale and Buena Vista Suites. Proof of hotel
stay will be required to prevent having
to pay the surcharge, when you pick-up your badge.
This is not what we agreed. This is not a surcharge, but a discount that
applies to those using the meeting
hotel.
You have placed me in a position where I need to investigate and protest
the
surcharge fee. Please note that I will enter this as a topic for the EC
meeting in March.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 5:55 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: URGENT: Hotel Website Still Broken - Please use workaround below
to
BOOK NOW !!!
{To all WG Chairs: Please ensure this urgent message is forwarded to your
full WG List}
MEETING UPDATE #2
IEEE 802 Plenary March 14-19, 2010
Orlando, Florida USA
Hotel Website Still Broken - Please use workarounds below !!! PLEASE
BOOK
NOW !!!
CARIBE ROYALE RESORT - An All-Suites Hotel Property
GROUP RATE (IEEE802)
.$170.00 US Single/Double Occupancy plus 12.5% taxes per Suite (free
Guestroom Internet Included)
RESERVATION CUT OFF DATE - 6 pm EST on FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2010
CANCELLATION POLICY - No charge if cancelled before 6 pm EST on Date of
Arrival
Caribe Royale Resort WEB RESERVATIONS LINK: (you may need to cut& paste
the following URL into your browser to assure access)
https://reservations.thecaribeorlando.com/cariberoyale/Availability.asp?WCI=
Groups
<https://reservations.thecaribeorlando.com/cariberoyale/Availability.asp?WCI
=Groups&WCE=GroupSelect&BookID=4905&GroupPassword=885>
&WCE=GroupSelect&BookID=4905&GroupPassword=885
BUENA VISTA SUITES - An All-Suites Hotel Property adjoining the Caribe
GROUP RATE (IEEE802)
.$150.00 US Single/Double Occupancy plus 12.5% taxes per Suite (free
Guestroom Internet Included)
RESERVATION CUT OFF DATE - 6 pm EST on FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2010
CANCELLATION POLICY - No charge if cancelled before 6 pm EST on Date of
Arrival
Buena Vista Suites WEB RESERVATIONS LINK: (you may need to cut& paste
the
following URL into your browser to assure access)
https://reservations.thecaribeorlando.com/buenavistasuites/Availability.asp?
WCI=Groups
<https://reservations.thecaribeorlando.com/buenavistasuites/Availability.asp
?WCI=Groups&WCE=GroupSelect&BookID=2235&GroupPassword=38000705>
&WCE=GroupSelect&BookID=2235&GroupPassword=38000705
If you still have reservation site problems please use Phone or FAX for
your
reservation.
For more information about Registration, VISA Letters, the Basic Schedule
and other event particulars please see the web portal,
http://ieee802.facetoface-events.com/plenary
REGISTRATION DETAILS
Register for this session at:
http://ieee802.facetoface-events.com/plenary
EARLY Registration Fee $400 US
Before 6PM Pacific Time (PT) Friday February 12, 2010
(UTC Time: 2am Saturday, February 13)
Web Registration Fee $500 US
Before 6PM Pacific Time (PT) Monday March 8, 2010
(UTC
Time: 2am Tuesday, March 9)
LATE / ONSITE Registration Fee $600 US
After 6PM Pacific Time (PT) Monday March 8, 2010
(UTC Time: 2am Tuesday, March 9)
A $300 US surcharge will be added to the registration fee for those
attendees not booking and staying in the 802-contracted hotel(s); Caribe
Royale and Buena Vista Suites.
Proof of hotel stay will be required to prevent having to pay the
surcharge,
when you pick-up your badge.
Meeting Planner Contact Information
Face To Face Events
2699 Iversen Court
Santa Clara, CA 95051 USA
Phone: (408) 241-8906 Fax: (408) 241-8918 Email:
802info@facetoface-events.com
Thanx, Buzz
Please note my contact info:
Dr. Everett O (Buzz) Rigsbee
Executive Secretary, IEEE-802 LMSC
7750 80th Place SE
Mercer Island, WA 98040-5912
ph/fx: 206-236-2229
SkypeID: BRigsB
BRigsB@ieee.org
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This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This
list is maintained by Listserv.
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This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This
list is maintained by Listserv.
----------
This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.