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Re: [802SEC] Hotel problem

Hi Buzz,
  There are two things that are playing out at the same time.
There is the registration discount for paying early, and then the "zapping" for not staying at the venue hotel. I presented these details to the 802.11 WG last month at our meeting, and for the most part was fairly well received. 
The problem comes in how do you justify the difference in prices.
It does make a difference to most people if you tell them they get a discount as apposed to a service fee.
We (802.11/802/15 joint Treasures) presented our financial numbers in a way to help people see the incremental costs of late registration. 
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/10/11-10-0074-01-0000-treasurer-report-january-2010.ppt
The "discount" for paying early is very important for getting folks to pay early. We see a spike on the day of the deadline for each step of the registration fee. 
The "Zapping" fee (Surcharge) can be explained with a good simple example:
  For the Wireless Meeting, if we had not had a room block,
we would have had to pay $550,000 for the rental costs just for the rooms, breaks, lunch == about $1200 per person. 
  See slides 14-17 of a presentation I gave to try to explain the issues.
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/10/11-10-0076-01-0000-first-vice-chair-report-january-2010.ppt
due to meeting our room block, we did not have to pay the $400,000 for meeting space. We also are able to show on the Treasury report that we got "credits" for having met our commitment.
I do not dispute that it is half a dozen of this verses half a dozen of that, but I have found that people do find the positive light description more palatable. I think that (as you noted) once we explain the rationale, that most people are generally understanding and in some case grateful to have the "surcharge" (mtg space service fee) to help justify staying at the venue hotel.
I do believe that when you purchase most things, there are discounts and service charges. We should find a way to describe the process in way that is factual and positive to help people understand the costs and fees that are charged are necessary as we all are working hard to keep to the budgets balanced and the expenses to a minimum. 

My .02,
Jon
802.11 Treasurer
802.11 WG Vice-Chair
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)" <matthew.sherman@BAESYSTEMS.COM> 
To: <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Hotel problem



Buzz,
I'm not sure "zapping" people for not staying in the contracted hotel is the right way to present it. Yes everyone should pay their fair share, and you have built part of the meeting costs into the room costs. People who stay at other hotels may not even be aware of this fact so I would not assume they are trying to avoid paying their fair share. I'm also okay with Ivan's suggestion of fully separating the room and meeting costs. But it may work out cheaper from the group in the long run to combine them. If so, I still believe a softer sell is required with very clear explanation of our rationale for why we have different registration fees for the different hotel option. 

The main thing is I think we need more discussion on this.

Mat

Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Engineering Fellow
BAE Systems - Electronics, Intelligence, & Support (EI&S)
Office: +1 973.633.6344
Cell: +1 973.229.9520
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee [mailto:BRigsBieee@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 3:31 PM
To: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA); BRigsB@ieee.org; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Hotel problem
Hi Matt, I guess I don't see the gain. If we start out by telling folks that the registration fees are $700, $800, and $900 but that you get a $300 "discount" if you stay at our 802-contracted hotel, I think you'll get more 
folks who are mad as hell that we are raising the registration fees by a
huge amount when we already have a large surplus.  But in either case it
works out to the exact same thing so it's just 6 of one, half dozen of the
other.
Besides, I dislike playing games with semantics to fool people into thinking they are getting something they are not. The intention is to ZAP folks for 
not staying in our contracted hotels so they pay their fair share of the
meeting expenses and so they hopefully decide to stop doing that.  Let's
just call a spade, a spade.          :-)

Thanx, Buzz
Please note my contact info:
Dr. Everett O (Buzz) Rigsbee
Executive Secretary, IEEE-802 LMSC
7750 80th Place SE
Mercer Island, WA  98040-5912
ph/fx: 206-236-2229
cell: 206-818-4978
SkypeID:  BRigsB
BRigsB@ieee.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA) [mailto:matthew.sherman@baesystems.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 10:26 AM
To: BRigsB@ieee.org; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Hotel problem

Buzz,

While a "surcharge" may have been approved, I agree with Bruce that
presenting it as a 'discount' may make it more positive and palatable in the eyes of our attendees. It also shifts the default position from "don't have 
to pay" to "have to pay" which may work in our favor as well.  Perhaps we
can consider this at the March meeting?

Mat

Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Engineering Fellow
BAE Systems - Electronics, Intelligence, & Support (EI&S)
Office: +1 973.633.6344
Cell: +1 973.229.9520
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com

-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 1:20 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Hotel problem

Hi Bruce,    I'm sorry if you misunderstood the proposal but if you will
look at the attached motion which was voted, it clearly does indicate "a
surcharge of $300" will be applied for those not staying on the
802-contracted hotel.



If you would prefer to explain it as a "discount for those staying in the
802-contracted hotel" that's OK with me but that's a much larger set of
people.  Our goal of course is to minimize the number subject to the
surcharge, and the evidence from the Wireless Interim meetings and the 802.3 Interims is that it works very well. I would be very happy to sit down and 
explain the proposal to any who have concerns during the March Plenary if
you think that would help.  But I don't think changing the wording of the
proposal will make any difference because the result will be the same either 
way.



I know it sounds harsh and unfair at first blush but upon explanation it
actually makes a lot of sense, and several people have indicated that it
actually solved the problem they were having with their company trying to
switch them to other hotels by making it no longer economically beneficial. 




You can call me if you want to discuss it further at my numbers below.



Thanx, Buzz

Please note my contact info:

Dr. Everett O (Buzz) Rigsbee

Executive Secretary, IEEE-802 LMSC

7750 80th Place SE

Mercer Island, WA  98040-5912

ph/fx: 206-236-2229

cell: 206-818-4978

SkypeID:  BRigsB

BRigsB@ieee.org



From: Bruce Kraemer [mailto:bkraemer@marvell.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 4:57 AM
To: BRigsB@ieee.org; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Cc: Paul Nikolich; James Gilb; Stephens, Adrian P; Jon Rosdahl
Subject: Hotel problem



Buzz,

You are causing me a big problem on a sensitive topic. Adrian noted that
your message reads:





A $300 US surcharge will be added to the registration fee for those
attendees not booking and staying in the 802-



contracted hotel(s); Caribe Royale and Buena Vista Suites. Proof of hotel
stay will be required to prevent having



to pay the surcharge, when you pick-up your badge.





This is not what we agreed.  This is not a surcharge,  but a discount that
applies to those using the meeting

hotel.
You have placed me in a position where I need to investigate and protest the 
surcharge fee. Please note that I will enter this as a topic for the EC
meeting in March.



Bruce







-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 5:55 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: URGENT: Hotel Website Still Broken - Please use workaround below to 
BOOK NOW !!!







{To all WG Chairs:  Please ensure this urgent message is forwarded to your

full WG List}











MEETING UPDATE #2



IEEE 802 Plenary March 14-19, 2010



Orlando, Florida USA
Hotel Website Still Broken - Please use workarounds below !!! PLEASE BOOK 

NOW !!!







CARIBE ROYALE RESORT  -  An All-Suites Hotel Property



GROUP RATE (IEEE802)



.$170.00 US Single/Double Occupancy plus 12.5% taxes per Suite (free

Guestroom Internet Included)



RESERVATION CUT OFF DATE - 6 pm EST on FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2010



CANCELLATION POLICY - No charge if cancelled before 6 pm EST on Date of

Arrival



Caribe Royale Resort WEB RESERVATIONS LINK:  (you may need to cut & paste

the following URL into your browser to assure access)



https://reservations.thecaribeorlando.com/cariberoyale/Availability.asp?WCI=

Groups

<https://reservations.thecaribeorlando.com/cariberoyale/Availability.asp?WCI

=Groups&WCE=GroupSelect&BookID=4905&GroupPassword=885>

&WCE=GroupSelect&BookID=4905&GroupPassword=885







BUENA VISTA SUITES  -  An All-Suites Hotel Property adjoining the Caribe



GROUP RATE (IEEE802)



.$150.00 US Single/Double Occupancy plus 12.5% taxes per Suite (free

Guestroom Internet Included)



RESERVATION CUT OFF DATE - 6 pm EST on FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2010



CANCELLATION POLICY - No charge if cancelled before 6 pm EST on Date of

Arrival
Buena Vista Suites WEB RESERVATIONS LINK: (you may need to cut & paste the 

following URL into your browser to assure access)



https://reservations.thecaribeorlando.com/buenavistasuites/Availability.asp?

WCI=Groups

<https://reservations.thecaribeorlando.com/buenavistasuites/Availability.asp

?WCI=Groups&WCE=GroupSelect&BookID=2235&GroupPassword=38000705>

&WCE=GroupSelect&BookID=2235&GroupPassword=38000705
If you still have reservation site problems please use Phone or FAX for your 

reservation.



For more information about Registration, VISA Letters, the Basic Schedule

and other event particulars please see the web portal,



http://ieee802.facetoface-events.com/plenary







REGISTRATION DETAILS
Register for this session at: http://ieee802.facetoface-events.com/plenary 



EARLY Registration Fee $400 US



Before 6PM Pacific Time (PT) Friday February 12, 2010

(UTC Time: 2am Saturday, February 13)



Web Registration Fee $500 US
Before 6PM Pacific Time (PT) Monday March 8, 2010 (UTC 

Time: 2am Tuesday, March 9)



LATE / ONSITE Registration Fee $600 US



After 6PM Pacific Time (PT) Monday March 8, 2010

(UTC Time: 2am Tuesday, March 9)



A $300 US surcharge will be added to the registration fee for those

attendees not booking and staying in the 802-contracted hotel(s); Caribe

Royale and Buena Vista Suites.
Proof of hotel stay will be required to prevent having to pay the surcharge, 

when you pick-up your badge.







Meeting Planner Contact Information



Face To Face Events



2699 Iversen Court



Santa Clara, CA  95051   USA



Phone:  (408) 241-8906       Fax:  (408) 241-8918     Email:

802info@facetoface-events.com











Thanx, Buzz



Please note my contact info:



Dr. Everett O (Buzz) Rigsbee



Executive Secretary, IEEE-802 LMSC



7750 80th Place SE



Mercer Island, WA  98040-5912



ph/fx: 206-236-2229



SkypeID:  BRigsB



BRigsB@ieee.org









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