Re: [802SEC] Governmental and standards body communication in the OM
Mike,
You are right.
I just added the snippet for the Radio regulations from the ITU web
site.
http://www.itu.int/publications/publications.aspx?lang=en&parent=R-REG&s
election=1§or=1
"The legal framework of ITU comprises the basic instruments of the
Union, which have treaty status and are binding on ITU Member States.
These instruments are the Constitution and Convention of the
International Telecommunication Union and the Administrative
Regulations, which complement the Constitution and the Convention.
The Radio Regulations (RR) form an integral part of the Administrative
Regulations."
Thanks & best regards,
jose
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Lynch [mailto:mjlynch@nortel.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 6:41 PM
> To: Puthenkulam, Jose P; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: RE: [802SEC] Governmental and standards body
> communication in the OM
>
> Jose,
>
> Thanks for the input. ITU-R recommendations that are
> incorporated by reference into the RR are mandatory. That is
> the purpose of incorporation by reference. It may only be
> elements of them that are included in the RR, but still they
> become mandatory. Yes, administraions include them in their
> rules; they have a treaty obligation to do so.
>
> In ITU-T ITRs are mandatory as are the settlement rates. So
> there is a regulatory element in the ITU-T.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Puthenkulam, Jose P" <jose.p.puthenkulam@INTEL.COM>
> To: "STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Sent: 7/2/08 20:11
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Governmental and standards body
> communication in the OM
>
> Hi All,
>
> Regarding ITU standardization aspects that become ITU-R or
> ITU-T recommendations. Some things to note below:
>
> I'm attaching an excerpt from the ITU-R web site
>
> http://www.itu.int/publications/publications.aspx?lang=en&pare
> nt=R-REC&s
> election=6§or=1
>
> "The ITU-R Recommendations are approved by ITU Member States.
> Their implementation is not mandatory; however, as they are
> developed by experts from administrations, operators, the
> industry and other organizations dealing with
> radiocommunication matters from all over the world, they
> enjoy a high reputation and are implemented worldwide."
>
> Similarly from the ITU-T website another excerpt
>
> http://www.itu.int/publications/sector.aspx?lang=en§or=2
>
> "Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T)
>
> The main products of ITU-T are the Recommendations. At
> present, more than 3,000 Recommendations (Standards) are in
> force. Recommendations are standards that define how
> telecommunication networks operate and interwork. ITU-T
> Recommendations are non-binding, however they are generally
> complied with due to their high quality and because they
> guarantee the interconnectivity of networks and enable
> telecommunication services to be provided on a worldwide scale."
>
> I'm not a legal expert, but I think the above language
> essentially makes any ITU recommendations non-binding.
> However if a member state adopts laws (or regulations) that
> require implementation of these recommendations (for example
> like the US FCC that is part of the Govt), it becomes legally
> binding in the member state.
>
> Hope this helps the discussion.
>
> Thanks & best regards,
> jose
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> > [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Sherman,
> > Matthew J. (US SSA)
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 2:30 PM
> > To: Grow, Bob; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> > Subject: Re: [802SEC] Governmental and standards body
> communication in
> > the OM
> >
> > Bob / all,
> >
> > Ultimately if ITU enforces international compliance with
> > recommendations, they are really regulations, not standards.
> > I'm not sure what the case is for Ethernet.
> >
> > I believe the current IEEE802 rules in this regards are
> (per new OM):
> >
> > (For standards body) WG communications with external
> standards bodies
> > that are not "Information Only" should be copied to
> affected members
> > of the EC.
> >
> > (for government body) WG or TAG communications with
> government bodies
> > shall not be released without prior approval by 75% of the
> WG or TAG.
> > Such communications may proceed unless blocked by an EC vote.
> > For statements not presented for review in an EC meeting,
> EC members
> > shall have a review period of at least five days; if, during that
> > time, a motion to block it is made, release of the
> statement will be
> > withheld.
> >
> > If people don't like these rules (or don't plan to follow
> > them) they really should be changed. If ITU-T is a
> 'standards body'
> > we are probably fine. If a regulatory body (as some
> suggest) then we
> > have a problem.
> >
> > Personally if something has the potential to be enforced by a
> > regulatory domain I believe approval by the EC is best.
> >
> > Mat
> >
> >
> >
> > Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
> > Engineering Fellow
> > BAE Systems - Network Systems (NS)
> > Office: +1 973.633.6344
> > Cell: +1 973.229.9520
> > email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
> > [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Grow, Bob
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 3:24 PM
> > To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> > Subject: Re: [802SEC] Governmental and standards body
> communication in
> > the OM
> >
> > Pat, Mike:
> >
> > It certainly hasn't be the practice of 802.3 to go through
> the EC on
> > Ethernet matters from ITU-T. 802.3 has received occasional direct
> > requests for consideration of technical features, to give
> or receive
> > advice on Ethernet features, to discuss usage of EtherTypes and
> > similar things Ethernet. A recent area of interaction has
> been on 40
> > Gb/s and 100 Gb/s Ethernet (e.g., mapping those interfaces
> to OTN).
> > All communications were clearly from and to 802.3, or in some cases
> > under the informal communications encouraged for subgroups
> between an
> > ITU-T subgroup and HSSG/P802.3ba.
> >
> > I doubt the EC wants to see and approve those kind of
> communications.
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
> > [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Michael Lynch
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 1:57 PM
> > To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> > Subject: Re: [802SEC] Governmental and standards body
> communication in
> > the OM
> >
> > Pat,
> >
> > I've been looking at this and maybe it would be good to
> provide some
> > definition of both what the ITU is and what it does. Also
> the process
> > that IEEE SA has in place to deal with inputs to ITU-R, ITU-T and
> > ITU-D.
> >
> >
> > All of the ITU is an intergovernmental organization. The terms of
> > reference for the ITU are defined in the Constitution and Convention
> > (CS/CV) by the Member States. Sector Members and Associate
> Members are
> > permitted to join and participate but companies joining are
> required
> > to have Member State approval. Some may see ITU-T as an SDO
> which is
> > logical but it is still controlled by Member States. Some
> may view the
> > ITU-R as being only regulatory in nature but that is just
> one of its
> > roles.
> >
> > ITU-T may create standards which are called recommendations.
> > But there is regulatory work done there, at least in the realm of
> > setting telecom settlement rates and the International
> > Telecommunication Regulations (ITRs). Both of those are
> certainly a
> > Member State matters and it is expected that there will be
> a revision
> > of the ITRs done in the next year or two. Member States are able to
> > block the approval of ITU-T recommendations. IEEE SA has a
> technical
> > liaison to ITU-T who should function the same as I do in my role as
> > the technical liaison between the SA and ITU-R.
> >
> > ITU-R does have a regulatory function and creates a treaty known as
> > the Radio Regulations (RR). It also creates recommendations that
> > identify standards from outside of ITU-R for specific
> purposes, e.g.
> > IMT.
> > Additionally it creates recommendations that are not based on other
> > SDO's standards. For example the recommendation from
> > SG1 (SM.329) on oob emissions. The 2003 World Radiocommunication
> > Conference (WRC) took text from that recommendation and
> included it in
> > Appendix 3 of the RR. Other recommendations have been
> incorporated by
> > reference in the RR which makes them mandatory. So ITU-R
> should also
> > be seen as a SDO in addition to being a global regulatory body.
> >
> > I would suggest that both ITU-T and ITU-R be treated in the same
> > manner, that is as intergovernmental bodies. If indeed the IEEE SA
> > ITU-T liaison functions in the same manner as the liaison for ITU-R
> > then ITU-T inputs should be handled by that person. It
> seems unlikely
> > that IEEE 802 inputs would have a regulatory impact in ITU-T but
> > should be considered and approved by the EC just as inputs to ITU-R
> > are done, the latter of course after approval by 802.18.
> >
> > Hopefully this is some help. It seems we will have an interesting
> > Sunday evening in Denver.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Pat Thaler [mailto:pthaler@broadcom.com]
> > Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 20:52
> > To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; Lynch, Michael (RICH1:2T00)
> > Subject: Governmental and standards body communication in the OM
> >
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > An issue arose during the comment resolution meeting on
> which we would
> > like your input.
> >
> > We have separate procedures for communications with other standards
> > bodies and with governmental and intergovernmental bodies
> but in the
> > past there has been some confusion regarding the ITU because it
> > involves aspects of both. I would like to avoid having to
> figure out
> > which rule applies in the heat of the moment. Is there some
> > clarification that we can add to the P&P to distinguish the
> two? For
> > example, the portion of ITU that regulates spectrum use vs the
> > standards making in ITU-R and ITU-T?
> >
> > The comment reference is 135.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Pat
> >
> > ----------
> > This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector.
> > This list is maintained by Listserv.
> >
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> > This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector.
> > This list is maintained by Listserv.
> >
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> > This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email
> reflector.
> > This list is maintained by Listserv.
> >
>
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