Re: [802SEC] Coping with agenda time limits - hotels and things.

["Shellhammer, Steve" <sshellha@QUALCOMM.COM>]

Bob,

	I agree that EC calls should meet the openness requirements.
You seemed to be arguing that we should not do conference calls since
they are closed.  I am just saying that we can make them open, just like
the WGs do.

Regards,
Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@cisco.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 4:43 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Coping with agenda time limits - hotels and
things.

Steve,

I said nothing about the WG conference calls.  The only ones that I am
familiar with are those from 802.11.  They meet the 30-day notice and
minutes requirements.  I have no reason to believe that any other
working group operates any differently.  

What I said is that the EC calls do not meet the same openness
requirements.  They should.


 -Bob
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Shellhammer, Steve [mailto:sshellha@QUALCOMM.COM] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 3:56 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Coping with agenda time limits - hotels and
things.

Bob,

	I have not problem making them open.  There is no reason to be
closed.  Most of the WG have open conference calls.  Are you suggesting
those calls are closed?

	We could schedule them 30 days in advance.

	Maybe now that you have raised our limit to 150 emails a day we
can just have lots more email traffic.  I personally think a discussion
would be better held one the phone, but if someone prefers these email
threads and want to do it that way it is fine.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@cisco.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 3:43 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Coping with agenda time limits - hotels and
things.

One problem I have with EC teleconferences is that they are not "open".
There are usually a very limited number of phone ports and the meeting
announcement often does not meet our requirement for 30-day advance
notice.  In addition, I don't think I have ever seen anyone provide
minutes of one of these teleconferences.

So, without an agreement to handle these as the actual meetings of the
EC that they are, I would argue strongly against this.

Come to think of it, there are a number of other "meetings" that do not
meet these requirements, as well.  At least one of them is the P&P
comment resolution meeting. 


 -Bob
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Shellhammer, Steve [mailto:sshellha@QUALCOMM.COM] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 3:28 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Coping with agenda time limits - hotels and
things.

Pat,

	I think we can get lots of discussion done in EC teleconferences
and make the decisions at the plenary meetings.  Clearly people have to
attend.  I do not believe there have been any meetings on topics other
than the P&P changes (e.g. meeting locations).  I would say we should
leave it up to the person leading the effort.  If they want to have it
spill over after the meeting that is fine.  If they want to prepare
before the meeting that is fine also, maybe even better.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Thaler [mailto:pat_thaler@agilent.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 2:43 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: [802SEC] Coping with agenda time limits - hotels and things.

We will probably find our EC meeting time available at plenaries to be a
tight squeeze. However, our attempts to do teleconferences on specific
topics (e.g. meetings and rules) have not been successful at getting
critical mass attendance. EC topic meetings Sunday evening and during
the week also find this a challenge.

We can have the topic meetings but there is a large chance of getting to
the EC meeting and finding out those who didn't attend disagree.

I think there are two viable options:
What we are doing right now - spill over the leftovers to email
discussion and vote where at least we are getting good participation
even if we sometimes get a little testy with each other and sometimes
have to grope around on how to handle equivalents of the parliamentary
procedures we would do during a meeting. 

All agree to a fixed time and day before the meeting when we would have
regular "virtual" EC meeting over phone and meeting software (e.g.
MeetingPlace) with a similar commitment to showing up to be part of the
quorum as we have during the opening and closing EC meetings. I expect
Tony will point out that this would be difficult to schedule
conveniently for EC members outside North American time zones. Also
openness issues would have to be addressed and we would need a rules
change to do this. 

I think the first tool is adequate for most of what we have and we are
still learning to use it well. I suggest sticking with email for now.

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