Re: [802SEC] Amended P&P text for Roll Call Vote Rules Change
Buzz,
I really don't have an issue with putting in a number like that,
and I am willing to discuss it during the resolution session.
The challenge of course is are you saying 4 per "side" since there
are always at least 2 sides per issue.
mike
Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
> Mike, I'm just thinking that to the extent you can put some threshold guides in there you can perhaps deflect some of the more onerous appeals processes, which can indeed be very unpleasant to have to deal with. For example, if you were to quantify "abuse" as requests for more than 4 roll-call votes during any single meeting, that gives the chair a threshold at which he can warn folks of the consequences of further "abuse" and hopefully head off the tactic and the possible disputes that might result from having to apply the rule.
>
> A little specificity can go a long way to preventing disputes in the first place. :-)
>
> Thanx, Buzz
> Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> Boeing - SSG
> PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> Seattle, WA 98124-2207
> (425) 865-2443 Fx: (425) 865-6721
> cell: (425) 417-1022
> everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Takefman [mailto:tak@cisco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 8:18 PM
> To: Rigsbee, Everett O
> Cc: stds-802-sec@ieee.org
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Amended P&P text for Roll Call Vote Rules Change
>
>
> Buzz,
>
> I agree with you.
>
> In the end, people make their own decisions, and the remainder
> of us get to grouse after the fact.
>
> The chair, WG, EC and so on up the chain will be forced to
> distinguish if complaints and ultimately appeals get launched
> based on things chairs do (or don't do). This has happened
> in the past, and will happen in the future. The goal in
> my mind is to try to insure the process is not just open and
> fair, but seen to be open and fair.
>
> mike
>
> Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
>
>>Mike, Well, as they always say, "One man's art is another man's pornography. How do you distinguish the two ?"
>>
>>Thanx, Buzz
>>Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>>Boeing - SSG
>>PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>>Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>>(425) 865-2443 Fx: (425) 865-6721
>>cell: (425) 417-1022
>>everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mike Takefman [mailto:tak@cisco.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 11:41 AM
>>To: Rigsbee, Everett O
>>Cc: stds-802-sec@ieee.org
>>Subject: Re: [802SEC] Amended P&P text for Roll Call Vote Rules Change
>>
>>
>>
>>Buzz,
>>
>>I copied that text right out of Roberts where it was discussing
>>divisions of the assembly. So that particular language has
>>withstood a long time.
>>
>>Right now our P&P gives huge power to the chair without all
>>that much guidance. The proposed text is clearly in line
>>with that philosophy.
>>
>>The requirement to minute the chair's reasons gives sufficient
>>details in the event that someone wants to protest that the
>>chair is abusing their position.
>>
>>I think in the end, it is like pornography, or at least art.
>>
>>I don't know art, but I know what I hate!
>>
>>cheers,
>>
>>mike
>>
>>Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mike, I think you're still going to have problems if you can't provide more specificity for what constitutes abuse.
>>>
>>>The WG Chair needs some guidelines for how/where to draw the line. It can't just be like pornography.
>>>
>>>Thanx, Buzz
>>>Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>>>Boeing - SSG
>>>PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>>>Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>>>(425) 865-2443 Fx: (425) 865-6721
>>>cell: (425) 417-1022
>>>everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Mike Takefman [mailto:tak@cisco.com]
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 6:55 AM
>>>To: stds-802-sec@ieee.org
>>>Subject: [802SEC] Amended P&P text for Roll Call Vote Rules Change
>>>
>>>
>>>Dear EC Members and interested parties,
>>>
>>>In January a small Comment Resolution
>>>group sat down and resolved the comments on the
>>>Rules Change Ballot (which failed originally).
>>>
>>>These proposed changes will be discussed at the
>>>sunday night rules change meeting in Orlando.
>>>
>>>I believe that this text provides a good compromise
>>>on both allowing roll call votes and allowing the
>>>chair to make progress in meetings by not being
>>>swamped by roll call votes.
>>>
>>>I would like to have an straw poll on this new
>>>text from EC members between now and the rules
>>>change meeting. Please email me with your support or
>>>concerns over this change.
>>>
>>>cheers,
>>>
>>>mike
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Michael Takefman tak@cisco.com
Distinguished Engineer, Cisco Systems
Chair IEEE 802.17 Stds WG
3000 Innovation Dr, Ottawa, Canada, K2K 3E8
voice: 613-254-3399 cell:613-220-6991