RE: [802SEC] Re: Wireless LCD Projectors for use at July plenary at HR-SF
Roger, Well, just off the top of my head I would say:
1) More compact, less complex, and all covered by single warranty,
2) Simpler set-up and configuration because of preprogrammed interface characteristics,
3) Less bits and pieces to get lost or misconnected, and of course
4) No additional external power requirements.
Given the difficulties we have with basic projectors I would have to say that simpler is WAY better !!! :)
Thanx, Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA 98124
ph: (425) 865-2443
fax: (425) 865-6721
email: everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger B. Marks [mailto:r.b.marks@ieee.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:35 PM
To: stds-802-sec@ieee.org
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Re: Wireless LCD Projectors for use at July plenary at HR-SF
Buzz:
At a random web store, I see:
Epson PowerLite 735c wireless $3,099.99
Epson Powerlite 730c no wireless $2,699.99
So why would we want a built-in interface instead of one standalone
one? What is the advantage?
Roger
At 4:33 PM -0700 03/07/01, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
>Matt, I repeat: $300 - No !!! $4000 - Si !!!
>
>Thanx, Buzz
>Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>Boeing - SSG
>PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>(425) 865-2443 Fx: (425) 865-6721
>everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mjsherman@research.att.com [mailto:mjsherman@research.att.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:59 PM
>To: pat_thaler@agilent.com; tony@jeffree.co.uk
>Cc: millardo@dominetsystems.com; Rigsbee, Everett O;
>billq@attglobal.net; dawns@facetoface-events.com;
>darcel@facetoface-events.com; jennifer@facetoface-events.com;
>bheile@ieee.org; bob@airespace.com; p.nikolich@ieee.org;
>marks@boulder.nist.gov; stuart.kerry@philips.com;
>tgodfrey@intersil.com; apetrick@parkervision.com;
>donbe@microsoft.com; stds-802-sec@ieee.org; stuart@ok-brit.com;
>hworstell@research.att.com; rrm@research.att.com
>Subject: RE: [802SEC] Re: Wireless LCD Projectors for use at July
>plenary at HR-SF
>
>Pat,
>
>If it works Sunday (and folks in 802.11e are willing) I'd probably test
>it during the week under more stressful circumstances. Buzz seems to
>have demo units available, so that will do fine for me. Actually, I'd
>buy one myself and bring it to the meeting (a $300 unit that is) but we
>seem to be under very tight financial constraints here at AT&T right
>now. As for 802 buying the unit, if the $300 unit did not work, I
>assume we could return it. If it did work, we would probably want to
>keep it around anyway.
>
>As far as the advanced capabilities I was talking about, I did not think
>they were actually available at this time. It was just a suggestion of
>how the device could be useful beyond what current projectors do.
>
>Mat
>
>Matthew Sherman
>Vice Chair, IEEE 802
>Technology Consultant
>Communications Technology Research
>AT&T Labs - Shannon Laboratory
>Room B255, Building 103
>180 Park Avenue
>P.O. Box 971
>Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971
>Phone: +1 (973) 236-6925
>Fax: +1 (973) 360-5877
>EMAIL: mjsherman@att.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: pat_thaler@agilent.com [mailto:pat_thaler@agilent.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 5:37 PM
>To: Sherman,Matthew J (Matthew); tony@jeffree.co.uk
>Cc: millardo@dominetsystems.com; everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com;
>billq@attglobal.net; dawns@facetoface-events.com;
>darcel@facetoface-events.com; jennifer@facetoface-events.com;
>bheile@ieee.org; bob@airespace.com; p.nikolich@ieee.org;
>marks@boulder.nist.gov; stuart.kerry@philips.com; tgodfrey@intersil.com;
>apetrick@parkervision.com; donbe@microsoft.com; stds-802-sec@ieee.org;
>stuart@ok-brit.com; Worstell,Harry R (Harry); Miller,Robert R (Robert)
>Subject: RE: [802SEC] Re: Wireless LCD Projectors for use at July
>plenary at HR-SF
>
>I don't think a Sunday evening trial would answer the questions (except
>perhaps the question Can someone load the software onto their laptop and
>get it to work?). I'm sure it can work in that environment. The question
>is what happens when there are 100 laptops with .11 cards in the area.
>I'm pretty sure that in our real meeting rooms we would need to do
>something like plan to allocate the video to different channels so that
>it isn't competing with the general network traffic. Someone needs to do
>some planning on paper before we get very far.
>
>Also, I don't think we should buy one to test it. The purpose of the
>IEEE 802 treasury isn't to fund technology testing. If we want to try
>one, it should either be on the basis of getting a demo unit as Buzz
>suggested or by having a volunteer bring one.
>
>I also agree somewhat with Howard's sentiments.
>
>By the way, I'm fairly sure the unit I saw at the T10 meeting only
>allows one PC's video to drive it at a time. I don't think it has a
>feature for what you suggested: splitting the screen between two inputs
>at a time. What they got was freedom from having a video cable. At least
>some systems seemed to pay for that freedom with some performance
>penalty - not surprising because, instead of having the video card take
>care of driving the screen, the system processor has to get involved in
>sending network traffic.
>
>Pat
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mjsherman@research.att.com [mailto:mjsherman@research.att.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:53 PM
>To: tony@jeffree.co.uk
>Cc: millardo@dominetsystems.com; everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com;
>billq@attglobal.net; dawns@facetoface-events.com;
>darcel@facetoface-events.com; jennifer@facetoface-events.com;
>bheile@ieee.org; bob@airespace.com; p.nikolich@ieee.org;
>marks@boulder.nist.gov; stuart.kerry@philips.com; tgodfrey@intersil.com;
>apetrick@parkervision.com; donbe@microsoft.com; stds-802-sec@ieee.org;
>stuart@ok-brit.com; hworstell@research.att.com; rrm@research.att.com
>Subject: RE: [802SEC] Re: Wireless LCD Projectors for use at July
>plenary at HR-SF
>
>
>
>In fact, I volunteer to try it out Sunday evening for the rules meeting
>(with a back up projector available of course!)
>
>Matthew Sherman
>Vice Chair, IEEE 802
>Technology Consultant
>Communications Technology Research
>AT&T Labs - Shannon Laboratory
>Room B255, Building 103
>180 Park Avenue
>P.O. Box 971
>Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971
>Phone: +1 (973) 236-6925
>Fax: +1 (973) 360-5877
>EMAIL: mjsherman@att.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tony Jeffree [mailto:tony@jeffree.co.uk]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:36 PM
>To: Sherman,Matthew J (Matthew)
>Cc: millardo@dominetsystems.com; everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com;
>billq@attglobal.net; dawns@facetoface-events.com;
>darcel@facetoface-events.com; jennifer@facetoface-events.com;
>bheile@ieee.org; bob@airespace.com; p.nikolich@ieee.org;
>marks@boulder.nist.gov; stuart.kerry@philips.com; tgodfrey@intersil.com;
>apetrick@parkervision.com; donbe@microsoft.com; stds-802-sec@ieee.org;
>stuart@ok-brit.com; Worstell,Harry R (Harry); Miller,Robert R (Robert)
>Subject: RE: [802SEC] Re: Wireless LCD Projectors for use at July
>plenary at HR-SF
>
>Mat -
>
>There are obviously two laudable goals here:
>
>1) Getting work done in meetings; and
>2) Testing out the technology that we develop in real working
>environments.
>
>Unfortunately, it is not clear to me that these goals are not in
>conflict.
>
>Putting it another way, I think it is a great idea for you to guinea-pig
>
>these new devices in your meetings ;-)
>
>Regards,
>Tony
>
>At 17:19 01/07/2003 -0400, mjsherman@research.att.com wrote:
>
>>Hi everyone,
>>
>>So I'll add one more opinion to the pile. I think it is important that
>>we try new things and see how they work, especially if they are our own
>>technologies. If we won't buy it, who will?
>>
>>I can see value for a projector with a wireless interface - where a guy
>>in the back of the room can quickly display their objection on the
>>screen, or where you might even be able to briefly split the screen
>>between two inputs for comparison. But frankly, I am perplexed by the
>>software and control issues - another reason why I want to try it so I
>>can see first hand if it works or not.
>>
>>Another area of personal concern for me is whether the RF environment
>in
>>our meetings can hack it. I'm already not very happy with the
>>performance we get out of our current WLAN without a video load.
>>802.11e (QoS) is not out yet. So, I can't wait to see what happens
>when
>>we add a video load in with our existing loads. Will the WLAN be able
>>to handle the load? Will other traffic in the area impact the quality
>>of the video on the projector?
>>
>>I view IEEE 802 not just as a standards development organization, but a
>>as a potential test bed for our own technologies. Actually, I wish we
>>did more testing and evaluation of the network we run here. The one
>>thing I will caution is I'm not sure myself if an investment in the
>>projector will be worth while, so don't buy more than one. I think it
>>is worth buying one though just to find out if it is worth while.
>>
>>Mat
>>
>>Matthew Sherman
>>Vice Chair, IEEE 802
> >Technology Consultant
>>Communications Technology Research
>>AT&T Labs - Shannon Laboratory
>>Room B255, Building 103
>>180 Park Avenue
>>P.O. Box 971
>>Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971
>>Phone: +1 (973) 236-6925
>>Fax: +1 (973) 360-5877
>>EMAIL: mjsherman@att.com
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Howard Frazier [mailto:millardo@dominetsystems.com]
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:08 PM
>>To: Rigsbee, Everett O
>>Cc: billq@attglobal.net; 802 @F2F Dawn S; darcel@facetoface-events.com;
>>802 @F2F Jennifer Hull; 802 Bob Heile; Bob O'Hara; Paul Nikolich
>>(E-mail); 802 Roger B. Marks; 802 Stuart J. Kerry; Tim Godfrey; 802. 11
>>Al Petrick (802-11 Al Petrick); Don Berry; 802 Exec; stuart@ok-brit.com
>>Subject: [802SEC] Re: Wireless LCD Projectors for use at July plenary
>at
>>HR-SF
>>
>>
>>
>>Personally, I would not pay extra $ for a projector
>>with a wireless interface. Based on bitter experience,
>>I never add software or hardware to my laptop while I
>>am traveling, so I loathe the idea of having to add
>>some new driver for this interface.
>>
>>The time required to connect a cable to a projector
>>is minimal. Time is occasionally wasted when a
>>presenter can't figure out how to toggle between
>>their laptop's LCD and the external monitor interface,
>>or when this simple action produces a "Microsoft Moment".
>>I can't see where adding a couple of layers of complexity
>>will improve the situation. For large, busy groups that
>>need to save time, the best technique is to load all
>>of the presentation materials onto one laptop, thus
>>avoiding the need to switch connections.
>>
>>In the five years that we have been buying projectors,
>>I have learned that "bells and whistles" like cameras
>>are pretty much useless. I would put a wireless interface
>>into the same category. It's just one more thing that
>>can break, requiring a potentially costly repair, and
>>taking a projector out of service.
>>
>>Let's please stick with simple, durable, bright,
>>high-resolution DLP projectors with minimal bells and whistles.
>>
>>Howard (Yes, I'm a Luddite, and proud of it) Frazier
>>
>>Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
>>
>> > FYI- I just happened to stumble across the Epson 735c Wireless LCD
>>Projector (see attached specification sheet) and thought this might
>just
>>be the thing for our future meetings, but wondered if anyone has had
>any
>>experience with this unit, and has opinions on its suitability for use
>>at IEEE 802 plenaries and interims.
>> >
>> > It seems to be price competitive with the regular wired units, and
>>might allow a lot more flexibility in sharing an LCD projector amongst
>>several presenters.
>> >
>> > Input and opinions on this notion are encouraged.
>> >
>> > I'm working on seeing if we can get a couple of these units to use
>in
>>SF for evaluation purposes. Any support for this from our Epson folks
>>would be seriously appreciated. :-)
>> >
>> > Thanx, Buzz
>> > Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>> > Boeing - SSG
>> > PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>> > Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>> > (425) 865-2443 Fx: (425) 865-6721
>> > everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>Regards,
>Tony