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Re: [802SEC] Definitions for IEEE 802 Network and IEEE 802 Family of standards

In trying to include non-802 standards based networks in the definition, we have managed to exclude networks based upon widely used 802 standards (those that do not really support or use bridging).  That seems rather strange and inappropriate to me.  

A device capable of bridging between devices not based on 802 standards into a network that is based on 802 standards would by the definition below be part of an 802 network, so I don't see the problem.  The other side of the bridge is not an 802 network. Why is this not reasonable?
Just wondering.
Ben
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> on behalf of ROBERT GROW <bobgrow@COX.NET>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2023 11:17 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Definitions for IEEE 802 Network and IEEE 802 Family of standards
 
Geoff,

I favor some kind of change like James noted.  Historically, there have been a number of standards developed to be compatible with Std 802 and use 802.1 bridging.  Power Line networks were one.  FDDI used 802 addresses and other than the challenge of frame length, were very compatible with bridging to LMSC specified networks.

I also think it is important to distinguish between standards developed within LMSC and elsewhere.

I think it is prudent to keep the door open for compatible innovation to happen outside of LMSC, and to preserve the ability for Std 802 to recognize that possibility.

—Bob

On Jul 9, 2023, at 8:57 AM, Geoff Thompson <thompson@ieee.org> wrote:

James-

I don't see any reason to change:
IEEE 802® network: A network consisting of one or more interconnected 
networks each using a medium access control (MAC) protocol specified in 
an IEEE 802 standard.

(Even though I can see some flaws in it, e.g. a Dot3 network with a proprietary PHY and media.)
Geoff Thompson
On Saturday, July 8, 2023, 12:35:32 AM PDT, Clint Powell <cpowell@ieee.org> wrote:


James,
While the quality of this mercy may not be strained, I know you're just waiting with bated breath on this one.

I , for some very obvious reasons, would strongly object to going with any definition that would preclude anything (standard, recommended practice, etc.) developed within IEEE 802.

I'm also not too keen on blanketly including anything not developed within IEEE 802 as well.

The current or less controversial suggestion would be the more appropriate choices.


Best Regards,
Clint

Clint Powell
Director - Global Head of Standards Alliances, PACS Mobile @ HID
IEEE 802.15 WG Chair & 802 LMSC Executive Committee
+1 (480) 586-8457



On Sat, Jul 8, 2023 at 12:13 AM, James P. K. Gilb
<000008e8b69871c2-dmarc-request@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:
All

One of the last comments remaining has to do with the definitions of
IEEE 802 Network and IEEE 802 Family of standards.

It has been suggested that an IEEE 802 Network should be all networks
that can be bridged together, including those that do not use and IEEE
802 MAC/PHY standard.

If we adopt this definition, some outside networks would be included and
some IEEE 802 standards would be excluded (e.g., IEEE 802.15.4 due to 64
bit addressing, at the present).

The current definition in the published standard is:
IEEE 802® network: A network consisting of one or more interconnected
networks each using a medium access control (MAC) protocol specified in
an IEEE 802 standard.

I don't have proposed text for the alternative definition, but it might
be something like:
One or more interconnected networks that use IEEE 802.1Q bridging.

The suggested definition for the IEEE 802 Family of Standards is,
perhaps, less controversial, that it is the collection of standards
created by the IEEE 802 LAN/MAN standards committee.

Thoughts?

James Gilb

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