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Hi Roger,
Some good suggestions, but there is a problem with "variable requirements". We need to have precisely defined requirements that are applied consistently and equally to all participants.
Having an EC endorsement is good. Having a list we maintain and circulate is OK. Having a cap that is constant and consistently applied is OK. We can easily ensure everyone is treated the same. I think (c) is problematic: demonstrating that it has been fairly
and consistently applied is hard. Then again, if a student hasn't learned that life isn't fair and certain traits lead to favorable treatment by the time they become interested in standards, we may be providing a useful educational service. So maybe (c) is
ok - it filters out students who have not yet learned to make a compelling argument or learned self promotion. If that is what we want.
FWIW
Ben
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> on behalf of Clint Powell <cpowell@IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2022 7:14 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Removal of student registration restriction
+1
Clint P
On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 6:46 AM, Roger Marks
<r.b.marks@IEEE.ORG> wrote:
I suggest that the student fee be subject to endorsement by an EC member. This would give us a list of names that we would circulate. I think this would be useful in two ways:
(1) It would make us more aware of the students, so we could be on the lookup for them and maybe give them a little extra support when we see them.
-similar to the way we see the names of fee-waivered folks
(2) It would make us aware of repeat users, so we could see if someone is wearing out their welcome.
We could specify variable requirements, such as:
(a) the list will specify the number of prior uses of the student fee
(b) up to N uses, the student fee is automatically approved based on EC request
(c) beyond N uses, EC approval is required
On Nov 1, 2022, 4:36 PM -0600, Geoff Thompson <thompson@ieee.org>, wrote:
Paul-
Who are you going to include/exclude?
- High school and trade school
- Junior college students
- 4/5 year engineering undergrads
- 4 year business/liberal arts undergrads
- Master's degree candidates full time
- Master's degree candidates, part time with outside tech employment
- PhD candidates full time
- PhD candidates, part time with outside tech employment
- Post docs
If I am 35, employed as an engineer and I'm taking a course in welding from the art department of my local community college can I get in for free?
I can see advantages both ways but it will be very easy to get into slippery slope territory and not even notice a slow slide into the problem region.
We will be bad guys when we try to back up.
Geoff
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022, 02:34:38 PM PDT, Clint Powell <cpowell@ieee.org> wrote:
+1
Clint P.
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org>
On Behalf Of Paul Nikolich
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2022 1:55 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] Removal of student registration restriction
I support Dorothy's recommendation -- based on our experience, there will likely be no material impact to 802 finances by granting an unlimited number of discounts to
a particular student, as long as they are a student. Furthermore, I believe it will result in a better chance for a student to convert into a full-fee participant after they graduate.
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 10/10/2022 10:50:29 AM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Agenda request for 2022 November 802 Rules Committee: Removal of student registration restriction
Thank you also to those who have provided comments.
Looking forward to further discussion. As indicated, the proposal does NOT include any change to
the restriction on obtaining voting rights. I believe that this attribute alone provides mitigation against serious
attempts to use this category to avoid paying full attendance fees.
Dorothy
I will add it to the discussion Sunday night.
Sorry Geoff, that will be 4:30 am PST.
James Gilb
On October 6, 2022 2:33:46 PM UTC, "Stanley, Dorothy" <dorothy.stanley@HPE.COM> wrote:
>Resending to the correct email reflector.....
>
>
>------------------------
>
>Dorothy Stanley
>
>Hewlett Packard Enterprise
>
>dorothy.stanley@hpe.com<mailto:dorothy.stanley@hpe.com>
>
>+1 630-363-1389
>
>
>________________________________
>From: *** IEEE stds-802-11-cac List *** <STDS-802-11-CAC@listserv.ieee.org> on behalf of Stanley, Dorothy <dorothy.stanley@HPE.COM>
>Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2022 6:45 AM
>To:
STDS-802-11-CAC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <STDS-802-11-CAC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
>Subject: [STDS-802-11-CAC] Agenda request for 2022 November 802 Rules Committee: Removal of student registration restriction
>
>--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Chairs' Advisory Committee Reflector ---
>
>Dear James and EC members,
>
>I request that the following topic be added to the 802 Rules Committee meeting agenda for the upcoming 2022 November Plenary: Removal of Student registration restriction.
>
>Please see the discussion below; let me know of any comments or questions.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dorothy
>
>==============================
>
>Removal of Student registration restriction
>
>Currently, student registration is supported for one time attendance only. See 4.2 in
https://mentor.ieee.org/802-ec/dcn/17/ec-17-0120-33-0PNP-ieee-802-lmsc-chairs-guidelines.pdf <https://mentor.ieee.org/802-ec/dcn/17/ec-17-0120-33-0PNP-ieee-802-lmsc-chairs-guidelines.pdf
> .
>
>I propose modification of the current rules as shown below:
>
>3) The student discount is based upon:
>d) Student attendance will not count toward voting rights.
>e) Each student can only receive this discount for one meeting. Attendance at future meetings
>will require payment of the full fee or LMSC waiver.
>
>
> f) Students will not be included in the Membership Data Base for future meeting
>announcements. Since students are expected to change status rapidly, we don't want to try to
>keep track of their address.
>g) Students might join a Working Group Chair's reflector, at the discretion of the Working
>Group Chair.
>
>Background/rationale:
>
>- Have had a handful of students attending WG11 during the low-fee ($50) electronic-only period. One student contributed submissions.
>- Would like to enable students to continue to attend; support student engagement and interest in 802 projects.
>- Having a large number of students that is problematic to manage/ large financial impact has not been the case in past experience.
>
>==============================
>
>
>
>------------------------
>
>Dorothy Stanley
>
>Hewlett Packard Enterprise
>
>dorothy.stanley@hpe.com<mailto:dorothy.stanley@hpe.com>
>
>+1 630-363-1389
>
>
>________________________________
>
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