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Hi All,
The proposed change ripples into quite a number of considerations, some of which have been touched upon in this thread. As it stands, the 1-time offer (1 meeting limit) means a lot of issues are simply prevented.
If we lift this cap then we have a LOT of stuff to think about. This is not a trivial rules change. Some to consider:
We may be able to find some simple additional changes that mitigate many problems. E. g. if we state that student registration will not be credited attendance then there is no impact on voting rules and process, and a clear incentive to become a full attendee
which may help with the abuse. I support the objective as I read it, which is to enable us to include more students. I think this is consistent with Geoff's recounting of the original intent in principle. I am just pointing out it is far from a trivial change,
and there
Not meant to discourage, just trying to set realistic expectations. I agree with Dorothy's stated goals in general.
Ben
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> on behalf of Geoff Thompson <thompson@IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2022 11:29 AM To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Agenda request for 2022 November 802 Rules Committee: Removal of student registration restriction George-
The student policy was developed when we only had face-to-face meetings and, in general only came through a city <once/4yrs. It was designed to introduce the concept of standards work as part of the student's education. It
was not designed to facilitate student participation in standards development (e.g. UNH-IOL).
I believe the original intent was a good idea.
I believe the text of the restrictions is appropriately aligned to original intent.
I also believe that the ability to participate remotely broadens the opportunity for students to educate themselves about standards but it is a bad idea for a student to use up his/her chit if the show is coming to town any
time during their student days.
On that basis, I would be opposed to the proposed change.
Geoff Thompson
On Thursday, October 6, 2022, 09:46:59 AM PDT, George Zimmerman <george@cmephyconsulting.com> wrote:
Dorothy – Thank you for bringing this to the reflector that I can see it. I am concerned about this as Treasurer. I am sympathetic to the aims, but it would create a significant loophole in our fee structures. The current rules state that a member of the LMSC needs to certify the student – not really sure what that means. However, they also define a student rather loosely, where a number of employed individuals that I have known (including myself when I was in grad school and working) would qualify as a student and regular attendees would be able to attend continually as students, specifically: “A student is defined as currently taking at least 50% of a normal full-time academic program in an IEEE designated field of interest for the current academic year.”
The academic load isn’t really the discriminator here – it is the affiliation support. I have known a number of individuals taking 80% or even 100% academic loads while working 30+ hours/week, and even classified full time. Allowing affiliations to send people at a student rate isn’t what we are after here. To give the ‘certifying LMSC member’ a better guideline to stand on, I think we need something tied to support.
Not sure, exactly of the wording, but the gist would be to add the condition that the individual’s attendance (including travel, etc.) is not supported outside of the claimed academic affiliation.
-george
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org>
On Behalf Of Stanley, Dorothy
Resending to the correct email reflector.....
------------------------ Dorothy Stanley Hewlett Packard Enterprise +1 630-363-1389
From: *** IEEE stds-802-11-cac List *** <STDS-802-11-CAC@listserv.ieee.org>
on behalf of Stanley, Dorothy <dorothy.stanley@HPE.COM>
--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Chairs' Advisory Committee Reflector --- Dear James and EC members, I request that the following topic be added to the 802 Rules Committee meeting agenda for the upcoming 2022 November Plenary: Removal of Student registration restriction. Please see the discussion below; let me know of any comments or questions. Thanks, Dorothy ============================== Removal of Student registration restriction Currently, student registration is supported for one time attendance only. See 4.2 in https://mentor.ieee.org/802-ec/dcn/17/ec-17-0120-33-0PNP-ieee-802-lmsc-chairs-guidelines.pdf . I propose modification of the current rules as shown below:
3) The student discount is based upon:
f) Students will not be included in the Membership Data Base for future meeting Background/rationale:
- Have had a handful of students attending WG11 during the low-fee ($50) electronic-only period. One student contributed submissions.
==============================
------------------------ Dorothy Stanley Hewlett Packard Enterprise +1 630-363-1389
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