Re: [802SEC] Penalties for non-payment of registration fees

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To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [802SEC] Penalties for non-payment of registration fees

From: Benjamin Rolfe <ben@BLINDCREEK.COM>

Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 19:47:56 +0000

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Reply-to: Benjamin Rolfe <ben@BLINDCREEK.COM>

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Thread-topic: [802SEC] Penalties for non-payment of registration fees

Hi All,

I mostly agree with George. First we need to assess the magnitude of the problem. Then we need to assess if any of the persistent non-payers are continuing to particpate.

Practically, all the ways I've thought of to keep those few from attending interim telecons or ad hocs are not good cost/benefit. We could remove those people from posting to the document server, which results in not being able to contribute significantly. This too should be evaluated based on the effort/benefit.

FWIW

Ben

From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> on behalf of George Zimmerman <george@CMEPHYCONSULTING.COM>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 11:20 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Penalties for non-payment of registration fees

David -
I am torn. As Treasurer, I think it is important that our rules be clear. I believe the clear intent is that voting rights and functional attendance at 802 meetings be restricted for those who do not comply with registration requirements. As treasurer, I when I follow up and produce the lists of 'deadbeats', I would find that clarity useful.

As an 802.3 task force chair, I believe needing to check the list of attendees on a call for those on the 'deadbeat list' would be yet another administrative step which doesn't directly relate to the meeting's work, and I suspect many would simply ignore any requirement to do so. We have enough administrative steps that I have seen chairs shortcut them, and attendees ignore them. I also believe that we should encourage contributions with an open door - and I would not like to see the door to technical ideas shut completely.

From a practical perspective, as treasurer, I am not seeing a large number of deadbeats, so I don't think this is a big problem. AND, the vast majority of those I see who remain on the list have either just said 'I'm not paying' - and don't come back.
I suspect this Is not a problem. I would ask if anyone knows of an active contributor who is ON the deadbeat list, and, I'd further ask, whether keeping the door to participation 'open a crack' but without voting rights or other benefits may encourge people to make good on their debt. If we find people gaming the system, then we may need to take action, but barring that, I would think that practically we don't need to pursue extra rules right now.

So, does anyone know of individuals gaming the system by attending meetings without registration requirements while being on the deadbeat list?
-george

-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> On Behalf Of John D'Ambrosia
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 10:22 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Penalties for non-payment of registration fees

David,
I believe this issue needs to be addressed and a stronger deterrent is necessary.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> On Behalf Of Law, David
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 1:11 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] Penalties for non-payment of registration fees

Dear IEEE 802 EC members,

I have a very long-standing action item (my bad) to chair an ad hoc to consider extending the penalties for non-payment of registration fees with regards to attendance at meetings. Currently, subclause 5.5 'Registration policy' of IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual says 'In order for an individual to become registered for a given IEEE 802 LMSC Plenary Session or Interim Session of an IEEE 802 LMSC subgroup, the individual shall a) Have complied with the registration requirements for all previously attended IEEE 802 LMSC Plenary Sessions and Interim Sessions of IEEE 802 LMSC subgroups, including payment of any required registration fees ...'. As a result, non-payment of registration fees has no impact on an individual's ability to attend the numerous teleconference meetings that are now being held.

I'd therefore first like to understand if there is any appetite within the IEEE 802 EC for the proposal to change the rules to expand the penalties to prohibit attendance at all meetings, including meetings that do not require registration. If there is an appetite to do this, I'll set up the ad hoc to consider the details of extending the penalties, if there isn't, I don't think there is much point setting up the ad hoc.

Please could you, therefore, let me know your thoughts on this proposal.

Thanks and best regards,
David

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