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Re: [802SEC] IEEE SA Contributors Collection

Hi All,

Thank you for the comments and questions around the Contributor Collection platform.  I have compiled the comments & questions and responses below, please let us know if you have additional comments.  I'd be happy to join the next meeting with the appropriate staff to have further dialogue around this as it may be easier to discuss on a call. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to present and for sharing your thoughts! 
Erin


  • It could be misleading to someone reviewing the submissions in the Contributor Collection as they may think the content was incorporated into the standard.  The platform gives submittals a level of officiality and this may be misinterpreted by other groups.

    • Currently there is an FAQ that addresses that the submissions in the Contributor Collection doesn’t mean it has been incorporated in the draft standard.  However staff is looking to add additional disclaimer text where it would be more visible.  This will likely be on the main page of the Contributors Collection platform and we are also looking into possible additional disclaimers that would state that the content does not mean it was accepted into a standard.  Staff will follow up with the final disclaimers. 

  • 802 contribution material is already made public via Mentor.  

    • This platform is permitting authors to allow others to use their material (there 4 license options).  The upload page does include “original contribution URL” so for 802 the contributor can add the Mentor link here. 

  • Can 802 opt out?

    • No, IEEE 802 cannot opt out. The Contributor (copyright owner) decides whether they want their material in the Contributors Collection.

    • If the submission of material in this manner doesn’t meet the 802 P&Ps you could advise the submitter they need to follow the 802 P&Ps to have the material reviewed. 

      • Also, additional text has been added to the system email template that is sent when material is accepted into the system.  The text will advise the submitter that they have to meet the requirements of the P&Ps of the Working Group. 

  • Proposal to limit the 802 Contributors Collection to previously presented material and allowing the title, abstract and URL. 

    • The author decides what to do with the content as the owner.  If the submission doesn’t meet 802 P&Ps, the WG doesn’t have to accept it unless it meets the P&Ps.

  • If the submission is completely unrelated to the standard, is there a way to kick it back to the submitter?

    • No, the WG would just not include it.  

  • Is Contributors Collection meant to replace Mentor?

    • No, this platform is not meant to replace Mentor.

  • Is Contributors Collection associated with a larger IEEE initiative for document repository?

    • No, this is not tied to an IEEE initiative for a document repository.

  • “Vetted & Validate”– There were concerns expressed around vetting and validating the material. Staff has reviewed the FAQs and training material and will update it to make it more clear that the WG does not vet the material for appropriateness.  IEEE SA staff will review the content for appropriateness and plagiarism before allowing it into the system.  Once the submission has been included in the system the WG can consider the material for possible inclusion in the draft. 

  • It is not entirely clear as to why a standardization author would prefer Contributors Collection to, for example, techrxiv.org.

    • The intent is so it is known the contributions are related to Standards development work.


On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 8:55 PM Benjamin Rolfe <ben@blindcreek.com> wrote:
Hi Jodi and all,

I may have a slightly different understanding of what you said than Roger states regarding (1).  I heard you say that contributions not previously submitted to the WG would be sent to the WG chair for validation.  That does not define a process for validating the material. We would need new rules or other documented guidance defining what the WG chair does with such submissions.  I am not sure submitting to "leadership" is sufficient to determine what material is appropriate. It seems like something we need to think about before we implement.

I have additional concerns about the vetting process. I heard an implicit assumption that material previously submitted to an 802 WG is already vetted.  Which further causes me to wonder what "vetted" means in this situation. Anyone can show up at a meeting (assuming they've paid the meeting fees as appropriate) and ask to present a document.  Our rules require anything presented is made openly available. In 802.11, 15, 18, 19 and 24 this means posted on Mentor.  I believe the other WGs have a similar way of meeting the "openly available" requirement.  We have very low qualification for who may post or present, as is appropriate to an open standards process. The fact that material has been posted and/or presented does not mean the group found it relevant, nor that it was accepted by the group for inclusion in the standard, or even that anyone else agreed with the presenter on any point.  If IEEE gives the impression that material available through the collection has been vetted, I see how this can go badly wrong.  I think it is critically important that it is made clear any document available via this collection is the opinion of the contributor and nothing more. Any pretense suggesting validation or vetting seems dangerous.  But that is just my opinion, and I can be wrong (I practice all the time). 😉.

Thanks very much for your efforts.  I do think this could be a valuable tool and appreciate the effort of yourself and IEEE staff in taking up the challenge.  It is very often (almost always) that there is a lot of valuable material contributed during the development of the standard which is not included in the standard, e.g. detailed analysis, simulations, etc, that can greatly enhance understanding of the standard. It would be great to have such valuable information more easily usable. I frequently refer people to submissions on Mentor for background information. 

Cheers!
Ben



From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> on behalf of Roger Marks <r.b.marks@IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 1:13 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [802SEC] IEEE SA Contributors Collection
 
Hi, Jodi. Thanks for the update on this topic.

I want to call out two things I noticed by following the links in the PDF:

(1) In the FAQ,
What happens after I submit my contribution to IEEE SA Contributors Collection?
Submitted documents are vetted for appropriateness and then their submission status is confirmed by WG volunteer leadership for acceptance on the platform.

(2) At the upload page,
By submitting the Contribution, you are providing the Contribution to the Working Group for the project/standard you identify, in accordance with the IEEE SA Copyright Policy and attest that you understand these terms.

As I understand, this promises authors that an upload directed to a WG will be pre-reviewed by volunteers in that WG and then will be treated as a contribution to that WG . I think that this could be a burden on the WG volunteers and will disrupt the current process in the WG. For example, many 802 WGs specify the format and cover sheet of contributions as well as the depository and file naming conventions, which may include, for example, coding indicative of a subgroup or topic.

How would an 802 WG opt out of being listed as a possible WG in the Contributors Collection?

Cheers,

Roger
On Jan 31, 2022, 1:34 PM -0700, Jodi Haasz <j.haasz@ieee.org>, wrote:
Dear All:

In support of agenda item 6.01 (IEEE SA Contributors Collection) on the 802 EC Interim Telecon tomorrow, document #ec-22-0027-00-00EC has been uploaded to mentor and can be found at https://mentor.ieee.org/802-ec/dcn/22/ec-22-0027-00-00EC-ieee-sa-contributors-collection.pdf.

Best regards,
Jodi

Jodi Haasz

Senior Manager,

Operational Program Management

Office: +1 732-562-6367

Mobile: +1 732-439-9144 | standards.ieee.org


      

  

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Erin Morales 

Director, Operational Program Management

Office +1 732-465-7806 |  standards.ieee.org

Cell +1 732-850-6410 

       

  

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