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Setting aside the ‘temporary’ vs. ‘permanent’ question for the moment (I think that if we change the subclause temporarily, we temporarily change the definition, but that is debatable), Regarding the detailed proposal, there is at least one problem I see at the moment.
“All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during electronic Plenary Sessions shall such meetings be held exclusively electronically.”
When I read this, it prohibits a working group from holding an electronic meeting under any other circumstance, even during an interim. I suggest simply ending the sentence at the semicolon. An alternative, which gets wordy, but maintains working group freedom would be:
“All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during electronic Plenary Sessions shall Working Group meetings during a plenary be held exclusively electronically.”
-george
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> On Behalf Of Roger Marks
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2020 12:42 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] proposed revision to IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual to support emergency electronic Plenary Sessions
Glenn,
I do not support the "temporary" alternative, because the LMSC P&P (which we cannot change) says "A plenary session is as defined in Plenary Sessions subclause of the IEEE 802 LAN/MAN Standards Committee Operations Manual." I think that only an action to modify that subclause will change the definition. I don't believe that an action under the "Suspension of the rules" clause would alter the definition that is specifically referenced in the P&P. Therefore, I think a "temporary" action would leave some Plenary activities (the ones specified in the LMSC P&P, such as elections) in an uncertain state.
Likewise, the WG P&P says "A plenary session is as defined in the 'Plenary sessions' subclause of the IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual."
I also don't think that the change is risky as a permanent one. It doesn't say that we can plan future electronic plenaries arbitrarily, only that we can revert to one in case of cancellation. I feel this is a good mechanism to have in place.
Cheers,
Roger
On Jun 2, 2020, 1:19 PM -0600, Glenn Parsons <glenn.parsons@ericsson.com>, wrote:
Folks,
I would support this as either a permanent or temporary change. However, temporary may be more palatable to other EC members.
To make it temporary, I think we can simply preamble the three OM changes to align with the recently approved PAR motion:
Moved: Due to the change of the July 2020 Plenary Session due to COVID-19 travel restrictions, suspend the following rules/procedures in the IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual From 11 June 2020 until 5 August 2020:
In either case, we need to decide this before June 11th -- the date in the motion and 30 days before the July plenary would start -- so an early close EC ballot will be needed.
Cheers,
Glenn.
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> On Behalf Of Roger Marks
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 2:35 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] proposed revision to IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual to support emergency electronic Plenary Sessions
Just to add a little punctuation, the current version proposes three changes to the OM:
(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph:
"Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions."
to:
"Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least one month in advance. In exceptional cases, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be held by electronic means as an electronic Plenary Session on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during electronic Plenary Sessions shall such meetings be held exclusively electronically."
(2) In clause 5 ("IEEE 802 LMSC sessions"), delete the third paragraph: All active Working Groups shall meet during each IEEE 802 Plenary Session. All Working Group meetings shall be exclusively in-person. Additionally, Working Groups and Technical Advisory Groups are allowed to have electronic meetings to make decisions between Plenary Sessions, but such meetings do not count for participation credit."
(3) In subclause 4.1.3, change as follows: "The IEEE 802 LMSC meets in-person during in-person plenary sessions and electronically during electronic Plenary Sessions."
As a reminder, the comment tracking spreadsheet regarding this proposal is at: <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOguhfz71ge0TflrdaAcGGSMc-tGqHb9dQThtXeU2VM>.
Cheers,
Roger
On Jun 2, 2020, 12:21 PM -0600, Roger Marks <r.b.marks@ieee.org>, wrote:
Current version of proposal:
(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph: Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions. to: Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least one month in advance. In exceptional cases, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be held by electronic means as an electronic Plenary Session on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during electronic Plenary Sessions shall such meetings be held exclusively electronically.
(2) In clause 5 ("IEEE 802 LMSC sessions"), delete the third paragraph: All active Working Groups shall meet during each IEEE 802 Plenary Session. All Working Group meetings shall be exclusively in-person. Additionally, Working Groups and Technical Advisory Groups are allowed to have electronic meetings to make decisions between Plenary Sessions, but such meetings do not count for participation credit.
3) In subclause 4.1.3, change as follows: The IEEE 802 LMSC meets in-person during in-person plenary sessions and electronically during electronic Plenary Sessions.
Cheers,
Roger
On May 4, 2020, 11:08 AM -0600, Roger Marks <r.b.marks@ieee.org>, wrote:
As a reminder, the comment tracking spreadsheet regarding this proposal is at:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOguhfz71ge0TflrdaAcGGSMc-tGqHb9dQThtXeU2VM
I believe I've captured all comments so far. If I've missed something, please let me know. The top of the column includes a link to the EC reflector archive so you can see the original email. You should be able to enter comments on the spreadsheet cells if you like.
Cheers,
Roger
On Apr 27, 2020, 1:59 PM -0600, IEEE <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>, wrote:
I am hereby submitting a proposed revision to the IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual (OM). This notice is in accordance with OM Clause 19, which says "Revisions to the IEEE 802 LMSC OM shall be submitted by a Sponsor member to the Sponsor no less than 30 day in advance of a Sponsor Vote to approve them. The Sponsor member proposing the revision may modify the proposed revision during the 30 days prior to a Sponsor Vote (in response to comments)."
I'm open to any comments and modifications, but I want to get the clock ticking ASAP.
Here is the proposed revision:
(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph:
Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions.[v22]
to:
Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least three months in advance. In exceptional cases, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be a held by electronic means on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during exceptional electronic Plenary Sessions shall such meetings shall be held exclusively electronically.
(2) In clause 5 ("IEEE 802 LMSC sessions"), delete the third paragraph:
All active IEEE 802 WGs shall meet face-to-face during each IEEE 802 Plenary session. All WG meetings shall only be face-to-face, electronic meetings are not allowed. Additionally, IEEE 802 TAGs are allowed to have electronic meetings to make decisions between meetings, but such meetings do not count for participation credit. [v22]
(3) In subclause 4.1.3, change as follows:
TheSponsorIEEE 802 LMSC meets in-person during regular plenary sessions and electronically during exceptional Plenary Sessions.
Rationale: The intention of the proposal is to generalize the concept of Plenary Session to include all-electronic sessions, in case exceptional circumstances require cancellation of a venue. The changes would allow the current procedures that are tied to a Plenary Session [except those addressed in changes (2) and (3)] to proceed without update. This includes all procedures in the LMSC Policies and Procedures, which says "A plenary session is as defined in Plenary Sessions subclause of the IEEE 802 LAN/MAN Standards Committee Operations Manual," and in the WG Policies and Procedures, which says "A plenary session is as defined in the “Plenary sessions” subclause of the IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual." The change also removes the hard prohibition on electronic WG meetings.
Cheers,
Roger
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