Re: [802SEC] Sponsor Ballot Recirculation Minimum TIme?

[Geoff Thompson <thompson@ieee.org>]

All-

(and I think Pat will agree with me on this)

It has always been our interpretation of the SA's rule for 10 days recirc. 

that it should mean that:

The balloter is always assured of having the ballot in hand for at least 10 days.

Over the years we have discussed and made varying allowances for:

- the less than instantaneous of mail to @ieee.org

- the less than instantaneous delivery of mail through ieee mail list service

- the fact that for some of members this is a 40 hour a week job

- the fact that for those of us for which this is part of job duties, those jobs have holidays

Additionally we have considered that our drafts often have a larger contributing balloting body and larger drafts than was customary in IEEE standards than when the rule was formulated.

I hope this helps.

Geoff

On Sep 5, 2017, at 10:14 AMPDT, Pat Thaler <000006d722d423ba-dmarc-request@ieee.org> wrote:

I believe that the current rules are accurate and don't need a change. I.e. there is a minimum time of 15 days for WG recirculation ballots which is in our rules. Sponsor ballot has a minimum recirculation time of 10 days which is from Standards Board rules. 

If someone wants to change that, they could propose a rules change. I don't see a name for that.

Regards,

Pat

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 12:13 AM, James Gilb <000008e8b69871c2-dmarc-request@ieee.org> wrote:

All

Is this a rules meeting topic?  (I have my own opinion, which is typically worth less than what you pay for it).

James Gilb

On 08/30/2017 10:37 PM, Adrian Stephens wrote:

Hello John,

I'm not proposing to change anything.   I was attempting to explain what I understood the rules to be.

Sincerely,

Adrian Stephens
IEEE 802.11 Working Group Chair
mailto: adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org
Phone: +1 (971) 203-2032
Skype: adrian_stephens

On 30/08/2017 21:28, John D'Ambrosia wrote:

Adrian,

Without going into all of the schedule detail, I respectfully disagree that there is no compelling reason to reduce the 15 days down to 10 days.  As I am working to submit the 802.3bs draft in time to meet the Revcom Oct 16 submission date, the extra 5 days would be extremely beneficial.

In regards to the 10 versus 15 days – I think 15 days is more appropriate early in the Sponsor Ballot Process, but as you are approaching the end 10 days would then be reasonable.   This seems to be better considered on case-by-case basis by the WG Chair.

But it does seem that there are no rules that really force a 15 day minimum

John

*From:*Adrian Stephens [mailto:adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org]
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 30, 2017 12:54 PM
*To:* John D'Ambrosia <jdambrosia@GMAIL.COM>; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [802SEC] Sponsor Ballot Recirculation Minimum TIme?

Hello John,

I don't believe our Sponsor P&P says anything about this. The text you quote therefore applies to 802 Sponsor ballots.

We presumably stated 15 days for WG recirculations because we thought the 10 day default (assuming "make WG ballot just like Sponsor ballot") was not considered long enough.

There is no compelling reason to make it any smaller because we are limited to a 2 month cycle by
our WG meetings.

Sincerely,

Adrian Stephens
IEEE 802.11 Working Group Chair
mailto:adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org <mailto:adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org>
Phone: +1 (971) 203-2032
Skype: adrian_stephens

On 30/08/2017 17:11, John D'Ambrosia wrote:

    All,

    In reviewing the rules regarding recirculation period for sponsor
    balloting, I have come some text that is unclear to me.

    The IEEE 802 WG P&P States –

    11.0 Actions requiring an electronic ballot require comments on
    changes required to modify the vote to Approve.  For a letter
    ballot on a draft standard to be valid a majority of all the
    voting members of the Working Group must have responded Approve,
    Do Not Approve, or Abstain. Comment resolution, recirculations,
    etc. should be consistent with Sponsor ballot rules and 5.4.32 of
    the IEEE-SA Standards Board Operations Manual (SASB OM).

    The response time for a Working Group letter ballot on a draft
    shall be at least thirty days. However, for recirculation ballots
    the response time shall be _at least fifteen days. _

    Submission of a draft standard or a revised standard to the
    Sponsor shall be accompanied by any outstanding negative votes and
    a statement of why these unresolved negative votes could not be
    resolved.

    Revised drafts approved in subsequent Working Group letter ballot
    for forwarding to the Sponsor Ballot Group do not require Sponsor
    approval for forwarding.

    However, the IEEE-SA Std Board Manual states –

    5.4.3.1 Ballot term Each ballot in the standards balloting process
    shall close at 23:59 UTC-124 on the closing date specified on the
    ballot. The length of the ballot and associated recirculations is
    set by the Sponsor. The initial ballot term shall be at least 30
    days in duration. The recirculation ballot term _shall be at least
    10 days in duration_.

    When I spoke with David, he believe we have used a minimum of 15
    days for Sponsor Ballots, but in light of these rules it is
    unclear where IEEE 802 has a requirement for a minimum of days for
    a sponsor ballot recirculation.

    Can anyone clarify another rule I may have missed?  And what are
    WG Chairs requiring for Sponsor Ballot Recirculations?  Your input
    would be greatly appreciated.

    Regards,

    John D’Ambrosia

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