Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules
James
I already sent a response to the reflector saying that my reply was to loss due to not voting. I agree that attendance credit should be retained for those who lost voting rights due to 7.2.2, i.e. not enough attendance. That response may have been lost - I haven't gotten a copy of it.
Here is what I wrote:
-----------
Jon,
I may have misunderstood Adrian's question. I was answering regarding loss due to lack of voting.
I agree that loss due to failure to attend doesn't reset prior attendance.
There seems to be a mistake in Adrian's example as March 2013 appears twice - corrected below:
We have a member with the following attendances
03 2013 - No (plenary)
05 2013 - No (interim)
07 2013 - Yes (plenary)
09 2013 - No (interim)
11 2013 - No (plenary) (loses voting rights)
01 2014 - Yes (interim)
03 2014 - Yes (plenary)
I assume in that example, the voter also hadn't attended the 11 2012 meeting and hadn't attended an interim that could substitute for it because if the voter had, they would still have had voting rights in November. When the voter lose voting rights due to not attending the November meeting, the voter still has attendance credit for July.
Since in March the voter has attendance at the prior July and January meetings, they would be able to get voting rights at the March plenary.
---------
Regards,
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: James Gilb [mailto:jpgilb@gmail.com] On Behalf Of James P. K. Gilb
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 11:24 AM
To: Pat Thaler; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules
Pat
Subclause 7.2.3 is separate from subclause 7.2.2. Subclause 7.2.3
clearly states that "membership is re-established as if the person were
a new candidate member." applies only "If lost per this subclause"
The question David responded to is a members failure to retain
membership. This does not affect the "Loss" subclause, which is not
relevant to this discussion.
IMHO: It would not be unreasonable to allow a person to retain
membership if they are attending but not voting on letter ballots. By
attending, they are (or should be) participating in the group.
I guess I will add this to the Rules discussion in March and we should
further discuss it on the June call so that we can have a resolution for
July.
James Gilb
On 02/21/2014 08:34 AM, Pat Thaler wrote:
> Dear Adrian,
>
> I agree with the interpretation Tony gave - that is, the person has to regain voting rights as a new member starting with accumulating participation credit.
>
> If one interprets it as David suggests, then the Loss provision has no teeth. Someone who regularly attends WG meetings and regularly fails to vote on ballots could regain their voting rights at the start of each plenary and would lose nothing by their non-responsiveness.
>
> Regards,
> Pat
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Law, David
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 4:24 AM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules
>
> Hi Adrian,
>
> To answer what I understand your question to be, in IEEE 802.3, if a member fails to maintain voting membership through lack of attendance, they keep previous attendances for future gain to voting membership.
>
> Best regards,
> David
>
> -----
>
> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
> Sent: 21 February 2014 07:34
> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [802SEC] WG membership rules
>
> Dear SEC,
>
> If you are responsible for maintaining voting status for your WG, please respond to the
> question at the end of this email.
>
> A query by an 802.11 member causes me to question how I've interpreted the WG P&P regarding
> loss of membership through non-attendance.
>
> The WG P&P State: (my highlight)
>
> 7.2.2. Retention
> Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the last four plenary sessions. One duly
> constituted interim WG or task group session may be substituted for one of the two plenary
> sessions.
>
> 7.2.3. Loss
> Excepting recirculation letter ballots membership may be lost if two of the last three WG letter
> ballots are not returned, or are returned with an abstention for other than "lack of technical
> expertise." This rule may be excused by the WG Chair if the individual is otherwise an active
> participant. If lost per this subclause, membership is re-established as if the person were a new
> candidate member.
>
>
> It describes how to retain membership by participation, but does not state what happens
> if the member fails to maintain membership. In the case of failure to return ballots, it is
> explicit that the member is reset as though a new member.
>
> So, the rules are ambiguous. You could interpolate a rule similar to the highlighted case
> for non-attendance (which I have unconsciously done in 802.11). In doing so, I am following
> previous 802.11 vice chairs' interpretation.
>
> We have a member with the following attendances
> 03 2013 - No (plenary)
> 05 2013 - No (interim)
> 07 2013 - Yes (plenary)
> 09 2013 - No (interim)
> 11 2013 - No (plenary) (loses voting rights)
> 01 2013 - Yes (interim)
> 03 2013 - Yes (plenary)
>
> According to the "everything reset" interpretation, the member is an aspirant at the
> start of march. According to the "2 in last 4 plenaries, regardless of loss of voting rights in this period"
> interpretation, he is a potential voter.
>
> The implication of the "does not reset" interpretation is that a member never transitions to non-member
> directly, but always transitions first to aspirant. And then later transitions to non-member.
>
>
> IMHO, your working groups must be operating one of the following two rules:
> 1. Resets to non-member, loses previous attendances
> 2. Reverts to aspirant, keeps previous attendances for future gain to voting member.
>
> Please let me know of these rule you are operating. If it turns out we're all doing the same thing, we should
> put that in the WG P&P.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adrian P STEPHENS
>
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