Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules
Hi Pat,
To clarify - my response to Adrian was to his question in relation to which of the two options applies to an individual that lost voting membership due to lack of attendance. I was not commenting on which option applies to an individual that lost voting membership due lack of voting.
Best regards,
David
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From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pat Thaler
Sent: 21 February 2014 18:18
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules
Jon,
I may have misunderstood Adrian's question. I was answering regarding loss due to lack of voting.
I agree that loss due to failure to attend doesn't reset prior attendance.
There seems to be a mistake in Adrian's example as March 2013 appears twice - corrected below:
We have a member with the following attendances
03 2013 - No (plenary)
05 2013 - No (interim)
07 2013 - Yes (plenary)
09 2013 - No (interim)
11 2013 - No (plenary) (loses voting rights)
01 2014 - Yes (interim)
03 2014 - Yes (plenary)
I assume in that example, the voter also hadn't attended the 11 2012 meeting and hadn't attended an interim that could substitute for it because if the voter had, they would still have had voting rights in November. When the voter lose voting rights due to not attending the November meeting, the voter still has attendance credit for July.
Since in March the voter has attendance at the prior July and January meetings, they would be able to get voting rights at the March plenary.
Regards,
Pat
From: jrosdahl.ieee@gmail.com [mailto:jrosdahl.ieee@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Jon Rosdahl
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 9:07 AM
To: Pat Thaler
Cc: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules
Pat,
I think that is the distinction that is being made here. and the point of discussion.
The rules clearly state that "loss" due to failure to respond to ballot or pay a fee causes a loss of prior attendance, but the fact that you miss one meeting too many was not specifically listed or mentioned.
Jon
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On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Pat Thaler <pthaler@broadcom.com> wrote:
Dear Adrian,
I agree with the interpretation Tony gave - that is, the person has to regain voting rights as a new member starting with accumulating participation credit.
If one interprets it as David suggests, then the Loss provision has no teeth. Someone who regularly attends WG meetings and regularly fails to vote on ballots could regain their voting rights at the start of each plenary and would lose nothing by their non-responsiveness.
Regards,
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Law, David
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 4:24 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules
Hi Adrian,
To answer what I understand your question to be, in IEEE 802.3, if a member fails to maintain voting membership through lack of attendance, they keep previous attendances for future gain to voting membership.
Best regards,
David
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From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
Sent: 21 February 2014 07:34
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] WG membership rules
Dear SEC,
If you are responsible for maintaining voting status for your WG, please respond to the
question at the end of this email.
A query by an 802.11 member causes me to question how I've interpreted the WG P&P regarding
loss of membership through non-attendance.
The WG P&P State: (my highlight)
7.2.2. Retention
Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the last four plenary sessions. One duly
constituted interim WG or task group session may be substituted for one of the two plenary
sessions.
7.2.3. Loss
Excepting recirculation letter ballots membership may be lost if two of the last three WG letter
ballots are not returned, or are returned with an abstention for other than "lack of technical
expertise." This rule may be excused by the WG Chair if the individual is otherwise an active
participant. If lost per this subclause, membership is re-established as if the person were a new
candidate member.
It describes how to retain membership by participation, but does not state what happens
if the member fails to maintain membership. In the case of failure to return ballots, it is
explicit that the member is reset as though a new member.
So, the rules are ambiguous. You could interpolate a rule similar to the highlighted case
for non-attendance (which I have unconsciously done in 802.11). In doing so, I am following
previous 802.11 vice chairs' interpretation.
We have a member with the following attendances
03 2013 - No (plenary)
05 2013 - No (interim)
07 2013 - Yes (plenary)
09 2013 - No (interim)
11 2013 - No (plenary) (loses voting rights)
01 2013 - Yes (interim)
03 2013 - Yes (plenary)
According to the "everything reset" interpretation, the member is an aspirant at the
start of march. According to the "2 in last 4 plenaries, regardless of loss of voting rights in this period"
interpretation, he is a potential voter.
The implication of the "does not reset" interpretation is that a member never transitions to non-member
directly, but always transitions first to aspirant. And then later transitions to non-member.
IMHO, your working groups must be operating one of the following two rules:
1. Resets to non-member, loses previous attendances
2. Reverts to aspirant, keeps previous attendances for future gain to voting member.
Please let me know of these rule you are operating. If it turns out we're all doing the same thing, we should
put that in the WG P&P.
Best Regards,
Adrian P STEPHENS
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