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Hello Pat,
There is an explicit provision in the 802 WG P&P that loss of voting rights due to failure to return enough ballots resets someone to zero, as if they are a new attendee.
So your example is not relevant.
There is no such rule for loss of membership due to non-attendance. i.e. somebody could cycle through aspirant, potential-voter and voter without ever becoming a non-voter (in 802.11 parlance, or "observer" in some other groups parlance).
Office: +44 (1793) 404 825
Best Regards,
Adrian P STEPHENS
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-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pat Thaler
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:35 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules
Dear Adrian,
I agree with the interpretation Tony gave - that is, the person has to regain voting rights as a new member starting with accumulating participation credit.
If one interprets it as David suggests, then the Loss provision has no teeth. Someone who regularly attends WG meetings and regularly fails to vote on ballots could regain their voting rights at the start of each plenary and would lose nothing by their non-responsiveness.
Regards,
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Law, David
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 4:24 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules
Hi Adrian,
To answer what I understand your question to be, in IEEE 802.3, if a member fails to maintain voting membership through lack of attendance, they keep previous attendances for future gain to voting membership.
Best regards,
David
-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
Sent: 21 February 2014 07:34
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] WG membership rules
Dear SEC,
If you are responsible for maintaining voting status for your WG, please respond to the question at the end of this email.
A query by an 802.11 member causes me to question how I've interpreted the WG P&P regarding loss of membership through non-attendance.
The WG P&P State: (my highlight)
7.2.2. Retention
Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the last four plenary sessions. One duly constituted interim WG or task group session may be substituted for one of the two plenary sessions.
7.2.3. Loss
Excepting recirculation letter ballots membership may be lost if two of the last three WG letter ballots are not returned, or are returned with an abstention for other than "lack of technical expertise." This rule may be excused by the WG Chair if the individual is otherwise an active participant. If lost per this subclause, membership is re-established as if the person were a new candidate member.
It describes how to retain membership by participation, but does not state what happens if the member fails to maintain membership. In the case of failure to return ballots, it is explicit that the member is reset as though a new member.
So, the rules are ambiguous. You could interpolate a rule similar to the highlighted case for non-attendance (which I have unconsciously done in 802.11). In doing so, I am following previous 802.11 vice chairs' interpretation.
We have a member with the following attendances
03 2013 - No (plenary)
05 2013 - No (interim)
07 2013 - Yes (plenary)
09 2013 - No (interim)
11 2013 - No (plenary) (loses voting rights)
01 2013 - Yes (interim)
03 2013 - Yes (plenary)
According to the "everything reset" interpretation, the member is an aspirant at the start of march. According to the "2 in last 4 plenaries, regardless of loss of voting rights in this period"
interpretation, he is a potential voter.
The implication of the "does not reset" interpretation is that a member never transitions to non-member directly, but always transitions first to aspirant. And then later transitions to non-member.
IMHO, your working groups must be operating one of the following two rules:
1. Resets to non-member, loses previous attendances 2. Reverts to aspirant, keeps previous attendances for future gain to voting member.
Please let me know of these rule you are operating. If it turns out we're all doing the same thing, we should put that in the WG P&P.
Best Regards,
Adrian P STEPHENS
Tel: +44 (1793) 404825 (office)
Tel: +44 (7920) 084 900 (mobile, UK)
Tel: +1 (408) 2397485 (mobile, USA)
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Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ VAT No: 860 2173 47
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