Generally, an expiry date on a document ensures that it goes away at
some point even if it isn't replaced. It doesn't mean that it will
always be valid for that long. For example, some of our drafts and
all IETF IDs have an expiration date but they often are replaced with
a new draft before it expires.
I don't think we send out a position statement expecting to
contradict it 6 months later. Yes we may refine it and send out a new
statement before 5 years. New information or new participation might
change our views more radically, but it isn't what we expect when we
send a statement out. It would undermine the usefulness of a position
statement if we sent it out with a very short expiration.
Regards, Pat
-----Original Message----- From: Michael Lynch
[mailto:MJLynch@mjlallc.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 9:04 AM
To: James P. K. Gilb; Roger Marks Cc: EC List
(STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG); John_DAmbrosia@dell.com;
jrosdahl@ieee.org Rosdahl; p.nikolich@ieee.org Nikolich; Pat Thaler;
clint.chaplin@gmail.com Chaplin; Tony Jeffree; David_Law@ieee.org
Law; bkraemer@ieee.org <bkraemer@ieee.org> Kraemer; Bob Heile;
subirdas21@gmail.com Subir; "Buzz paul.nikolich@ATT.NET"
<""apurva.mody"@baesystems.com SSA) Mody,freqmgr@ieee.org Lynch
<freqmgr@ieee.org>,shellhammer@ieee.org J Shellhammer
<shellhammer@ieee.org>,Riegel Maximilian
<maximilian.riegel@nsn.com>,Thompson Geoffrey
<thompson@ieee.org>,Everett O. Rigsbee
<BRigsBieee@comcast.net>,Radhakrishna Canchi
<Radhakrishna.Canchi@kyocera.com>,John Lemon <jlemon@ieee.org>,Paul
Nikolich " "> Subject: RE: +++ 10 Day EC Ballot - Reply Comments to
the FCC's Incentive Auction Proposal - Docket No. 12-268 +++
James,
Another item that doesn't seem to fit our filings with the FCC or any
other regulatory body: they are not position statements or papers and
should not have a five year life cycle.
"All IEEE 802 LMSC communications to government bodies shall be
issued by the IEEE 802 LMSC Chair as the view of IEEE 802 LMSC
(stated in the first paragraph of the statement). Such communications
shall be copied to the Sponsor and the IEEE-SA Standards Board
Secretary and shall be posted on the IEEE 802 LMSC web site. The IEEE
802 LMSC web site shall state that all such position statements shall
expire five years after issue."
For example what we filed after the January meeting may not be the
view of the wireless groups by the time they meet in September. So to
have them considered as IEEE 802 position statements or papers
doesn't fit their intended purpose. Our views can and sometimes do
change in less than a year rather than the five years referenced in
the OM.
Regards,
Mike
-----Original Message----- From: James Gilb [mailto:jpgilb@gmail.com]
On Behalf Of James P. K. Gilb Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 1:47
AM To: Roger Marks Cc: Michael Lynch; EC List
(STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG); John_DAmbrosia@dell.com;
jrosdahl@ieee.org Rosdahl; p.nikolich@ieee.org Nikolich; Pat Thaler;
clint.chaplin@gmail.com Chaplin; Tony Jeffree; David_Law@ieee.org
Law; bkraemer@ieee.org <bkraemer@ieee.org> Kraemer; Bob Heile;
subirdas21@gmail.com Subir; "Buzz paul.nikolich@ATT.NET"
<""apurva.mody"@baesystems.com SSA) Mody,freqmgr@ieee.org Lynch
<freqmgr@ieee.org>,shellhammer@ieee.org J Shellhammer
<shellhammer@ieee.org>,Riegel Maximilian
<maximilian.riegel@nsn.com>,Thompson Geoffrey
<thompson@ieee.org>,Everett O. Rigsbee
<BRigsBieee@comcast.net>,Radhakrishna Canchi
<Radhakrishna.Canchi@kyocera.com>,John Lemon <jlemon@ieee.org>,Paul
Nikolich " "> Subject: Re: +++ 10 Day EC Ballot - Reply Comments to
the FCC's Incentive Auction Proposal - Docket No. 12-268 +++
All
With regards to item 3), unfortunately, there is some overlap between
the OM and the P&P.
The P&P requires: - 2/3 approval for public statements - Public
statements are only issued by the Chair.
Both of these are in subclauses that can only be added to, hence
these requirements come from AudCom and it is highly unlikely we can
change them.
As for "Such communications shall be copied to the Sponsor and the
IEEE-SA Standards Board Secretary and shall be posted on the IEEE 802
LMSC web site. The IEEE 802 LMSC web site shall state that all such
position statements shall expire five years after issue.", we can and
probably should change that in some fashion.
IMHO, it would be nice to have a single area on the web site that
does contain EC positions so that we don't contradict ourselves or
issue the same position twice.
I also agree with Roger that the argument that the OM was not
followed in the past does not mean that it should not be followed
now.
James Gilb
On 03/04/2013 11:38 AM, Roger Marks wrote:
On 2013/03/04, at 12:08 PM, Michael Lynch wrote:
Roger,
1. If you find the 2nd sentence of paragraph 11 unintelligible
then please propose new wording.
Maybe it was intended to be two sentences, like this:
"In light of this proposal we would like to emphasize the
importance of ensuring that the entire spectrum under channel 51
will continue to be utilized by licensed, unlicensed, wireless
microphones or TV operation. IEEE 802 Standards for operation in
TVWS have been and are being developed to minimize interference to
DTV reception in compliance with FCC rules."
I don't know the intent since I did not participate.
2. You may not be aware of the issues that have been occurring
with regards to the EC reflector. Therefor it seemed that there
was no other way to guarantee that this email would ever reach
the intended audience other than to use the private list. I'm
adding the reflector to this response. Let's see if it will work
this week. My last several attempts to use it ended up with
messages not being delivered. At Paul's request I was in contact
with the SA and they were not able to resolve the matter. In that
case last week the use of the private list was agreed to by Paul
and with the tight timeline that this ballot is on it seemed best
to use it to better guaranty being received by the EC..
I don't see your message in the archive. Maybe this response will
end up there.
3. Paul did very clearly authorize me to conduct this ballot.
Do you feel that there was another reference other than 8.2 that
should have been used or, that under 8.2, he is not authorized to
delegate to someone else the role of conducting a ballot? The
reference to 8.2 was also used on the very recent comments on the
FCC's 3.5 GHz NPRM without objection by anyone. In reviewing 8.2
I see nothing that prevents the Sponsor Chair from delegating the
function of communicating with governmental bodies. On the other
hand if the Sponsor Chair is the only one who can communicate
with governmental organizations then indeed he should be the sole
point of contact for all communications to and from the FCC,
Ofcom, ITU, etc. Maybe the OM needs to be revised (again) to make
it clear that this role can be delegated?
I agree that the issue I've raised could have been applied to past
ballots as well. Still, the precedent of ignoring the OM doesn't
invalidate the OM. 8.2 doesn't specify who conducts the ballot, but
it does state who needs to issue the statement (though the meaning
of "issue" might be debated). There are also some specific
post-ballot elements of 8.2.1 that I suspect have not been observed
in the past ("Such communications shall be copied to the Sponsor
and the IEEE-SA Standards Board Secretary and shall be posted on
the IEEE 802 LMSC web site. The IEEE 802 LMSC web site shall state
that all such position statements shall expire five years after
issue.")
Roger
Best regards,
Mike
From: Roger Marks [mailto:r.b.marks@ieee.org] Sent: Monday, March
04, 2013 9:46 AM To: Michael Lynch Cc: John_DAmbrosia@dell.com;
jrosdahl@ieee.org; p.nikolich@ieee.org; pthaler@broadcom.com;
gilb@ieee.org;clint.chaplin@gmail.com; tony@jeffree.co.uk;
David_Law@ieee.org; bkraemer@ieee.org; bheile@ieee.org;
subirdas21@gmail.com;apurva.mody@baesystems.com;
freqmgr@ieee.org; shellhammer@ieee.org;
maximilian.riegel@nsn.com; Geoffrey Thompson; Everett O. (Buzz)
Rigsbee; Canchi, Radhakrishna; John Lemon; Paul Nikolich
(paul.nikolich@ATT.NET) Subject: Re: +++ 10 Day EC Ballot - Reply
Comments to the FCC's Incentive Auction Proposal - Docket No.
12-268 +++
Mike,
I have a few editorial and procedural comments.
(1) The second sentence of paragraph 11 is unintelligible.
(2) Conducting a ballot by circulation to a closed email list
does not meet the requirement of OM 4.1.2: "Provision shall be
made for the IEEE 802 LMSC membership to observe and comment on
Sponsor electronic ballots. All comments from those who are not
members of the Sponsor shall be considered."
(3) Since the language indicates OM Subclause 8.2, then the
elements of 8.2.1(b) apply. In particular: "All IEEE 802 LMSC
communications to government bodies shall be issued by the
Sponsor Chair..."
Roger
On 2013/03/02, at 12:10 PM, Michael Lynch wrote:
Dear EC,
During the January wireless interim meeting in Vancouver 802.18
began work on a response to the FCC's 3.5 GHz NPRM proceeding. It
was not possible to complete the response at that meeting so a
series of conference calls were announced to complete the work.
Two calls, one on January 24th and the second on January 31st,
were used to complete the document Doc. 18-12-0109-06. The
document was approved by 802.18 by a vote of 5 yes, 0 no and 1
abstention, submitted to and approved by the EC and filed with
the FCC.
During the discussion of any other business the group decided to
continue to have the Thursday evening calls during the period of
February 7th to March 14th. The positive result of that action
was the approval on February 28th of proposed reply comments to
the FCC's "Incentive Auction" proposal (Docket No. 12-268). This
takes advantage of the FCC having extended the reply comment date
to March 12th.
I have asked Paul to allow me to conduct a ten day EC email
ballot to approve submitting the reply comments (Doc.
18-13-0016-06-0000) to the FCC.
Paul's response to my request is:
"I will authorize a 10 day EC email ballot, to be conducted by
Mike Lynch, for the following motion."
Motion:
"To approve, under OM Subclause 8.2, document 18-13-0016-06-0000
subject to the early close provision of OM Subclause 4.1.2.."
Moved: Mike Lynch
Seconded: Apurva Mody
Link to the document:
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.18/dcn/13/18-13-0016-06-0000-draft-reply-