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Roger
I was similarly confused. I don't believe any of our drafts are "publicly accessible" because they are (or should be) located behind usernames/passwords.
Regards,
Tony
802.16 maintains member access, on the web, to all versions of drafts, even after they become obsolete.
David said that 802.3 practice is the same as that of 802.11, but I don't fully understand what that is. Does "retain old drafts" that "are not publicly accessible" mean that they are kept in a shoe box, or that they are readily available to members? Based on the discussion, I'm confused about this.
Roger
On 2012/10/04, at 01:17 PM, Law, David wrote:
> All,
>
> To clarify the IEEE 802.3 practice – it is the same as IEEE 802.11 - we retain old drafts – but they are not publically accessible.
>
> Best regards,
> David
>
> ----
>
> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Kraemer
> Sent: 04 October 2012 20:11
> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Provision of obsolete draft standards to members
>
> Tony et al,
> To clarify our practice, we retain old drafts – but they are not publically accessible.
>
> If we are attempting to establish an 802 position we need to address policies for retention and method of access.
>
> Bruce
>
> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tony Jeffree
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:21 PM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Provision of obsolete draft standards to members
>
> Yes - what Geoff said. I believe this material should be maintained in an accessible state for exactly that reason. It is often the case that drafts contain material that is relevant prior art that is removed during development and doesn't appear in the final standard. So I believe 802.11's policy is misguided in this regard.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
> On 4 October 2012 18:55, Geoff Thompson <thompson@ieee.org> wrote:
> Adrian-
> I believe that ongoing access to drafts is essential for another reason.
> That is to provide (low cost) proof of prior art.
> For example, there are concepts embedded in 802.9 drafts and standards that are relevant to the current market.
> Given that much of the stuff in (especially) old standards never showed up at the patent office
> and that patent searches don't seem to be all that effective, we need to have ready access to that material to avoid and/or combat patents being filed or prosecuted against our work.
>
> The same is true for presentation archives
>
> Best regards,
> Geoff Thompson
>
>
> On 410//12 8:56 AM, Stephens, Adrian P wrote:
> Dear 802 SEC,
>
> A question came up in 802.11 at the last session regarding access to obsolete standards of drafts.
> (e.g. drafts of amendments that were subsequently published, and then subsequently obsoleted by a revision).
> The reasons to access such old documents might be:
> 1. To avoid paying a fee for the published document (yes, I know we have Get802 and currently a $5 fee).
> 2. For historical interest, such as documenting the development of a standard for a book or paper
> 3. For legal reasons
>
> 802.11 removes access to such drafts as soon as they are obsoleted by publication of an amendment or revision.
> There are perhaps three reasons to do this:
> 1. The terms under which access to drafts is provided is to develop the amendment/revision.
> 2. Looking at old drafts can be injurious to your interoperability
> 3. May dissuade members from purchasing/acquiring/using the approved document
>
> I have researched the IEEE-SA rules and can find no statement that says that access to drafts has to be
> removed at any time.
>
>
> Could I have comments from the SEC members on the following:
> 1. Do you believe there are any IEEE-SA rules that prevent providing everlasting access to drafts?
> 2. Do you see any practical pros and cons to this?
> 3. Do you do this in your group?
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adrian P STEPHENS
>
> Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
> Tel: +44 7920 084 900 (mobile)
> Skype: adrian_stephens
>
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