Re: [802SEC] Fwd: Re: Fw: [802SEC] Fw: New IEEE Standards Store
Geoff,
The feedback you gave is very similar to what I've given them. (I'm confused about why you call this the IEEE Xplore sales site - IEEE Xplore is the IEEE Electronic library site, not this one AFAIK.)
However, when I click on 802(r) LAN/MAN/PAN, in Internet Explorer, it says "loading" forever. It works in Mozilla Firefox except that the list of documents it brings up is disorganized to the point of being useless. Since there are so many standards and drafts in IEEE 802, the tree should cover the different dots to get the user closer to the standard they want before providing a flat list. And of course I agree that it should bring up active standards at the top of the list, properly labeled with standard.
I think that there should be check boxes so that the user can say whether to show drafts or superseded and withdrawn standards.
The search function is pretty broken too. Apparently your search just got lucky in producing a reasonable result. Searching on Std 802.1 brings up one document - a draft of 802.1Q-Rev. It doesn't bring up any of the 802.1 approved standards even though there are several. Searching on just 802.1 brings up three documents - the 802.1Q draft again and 802.17 and 1733 standards.
Searching on 802.1Q brings up the standard, below the listing for the draft. The amendments are listed which is good, but the list is a mix of approved amendments and draft amendments which is bad. The listing also says replaced by IEEE 802.1Q which is the listing for the IEEE 802.1Q-Rev draft. It shouldn't say that until the revision is approved and published.
Regards,
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 12:20 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] Fwd: Re: Fw: [802SEC] Fw: New IEEE Standards Store
Colleagues-
I spent some time on the phone last Monday (4/26) with Marcus Plessel
going over my critique of the IEEE Xplore sales site that I sent to
Karen McCabe and all of you on 4/8.
He was eager to show me that things have gotten better so we went
through the items that I had pointed out.
Following my earlier experience, we started at the top [
_http://standards.ieee.org/store_ ] and clicked on [802(r) LAN/MAN/PAN] in
the "Browse Catalog" area of the page.
This opened a page down the following tree:
View All Publishers > IEEE > Computer Engineering
If you look under:
View All Publishers > IEEE > Communication and Information
(Which seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable thing for a naive user
to do)
you seem to be completely out of luck as far as 802 standards are concerned
(i.e. the tree labels seem to actually be associated with sponsoring
society rather than application area, again something not obvious to the
naive user.)
But performing a "Browse Catalog" of "802(r) LAN/MAN/PAN" still produced
the same results as it had in my initial report.
That is:
The first 6 standards to come up (of 10 on page 1) were either
WITHDRAWN or SUPERSEDED.
The next 4 were either drafts or amendments
I pointed out to Markus that I thought that this path in should bring up
our currently active main standards at the top of the search.
(e.g. 802.1D, 802.1Q, 802.1AB, 802.3, 802.11...)
Further,
- that the standards did not include "Std" in the title to
differentiate them from drafts
- The full title field was not of sufficient length to encompass
our worst case titles and it truncated the title at the tail.
(They shouldn't have to truncate, but truncating the head
rather than the tail would actually preserve a higher level of usability.)
- The drafts for sale had:
- No draft number
- No date
- No expiration date
We had an extended discussion about the timeliness of drafts for sale
and he admitted that putting them into the "for sale"system was still a
manual process.
I reiterated my position of VERY long standing that:
0) A manual entry process by its nature introduces unacceptable
delays into the process
1) All Sponsor Ballot drafts qualify for public sale
2) All Sponsor Ballot drafts need to be available for sale by the
time the associated Sponsor Ballot opens
3) That the only reasonable way to achieve this is to make it a
FULLY automated process of myBallot
Markus claimed that some drafts were "not suitable for sale" without
editorial intervention to redistill the PDF.
I asserted that this was most certainly not true. Drafts for sale
should be (and I would assert SHALL BE) exactly the same as what is
presented for ballot via myBallot.
Markus said that he would have to take that issue back for study by the
"team".
I got more than a little impatient at that point and said that these
issues had been in study for far too long (I used terms like 10 years
and 18 months) and it was time for staff to quit "studying", take
action, commit resources and give us a commitment on when they will be
fixed.
We then went to a different page where it was hoped things would be better.
I believe we used the search option and searched on either "802 or "Std 802"
Using the latter search key we went to (I believe) 802.11 - 2007 as a
reasonable example.
It was VERY nice that it showed all of the amendments in the entry and
that there was a hot link to each amendment or corrigendum.
We discussed that the only "Get this standard" buttons were:
"Buy CD Rom"
"Buy Printed Edition"
I was concerned that the primary means of acquisition, the "Get IEEE
802" access was not shown at all. I recognized the conflict of interest
that a "for money" vendor would have in referencing free sales, but that
still seems like a problem area to me. My suggestion was a single
button that could be used in each applicable instance that was labeled
"Available through Get IEEE 802 Program". My proposal was that any
instance just go to: [http://standards.ieee.org/about/get/] which is
close enough for free.
I would hope staff can get many of these issues resolved before the July
meeting. I believe they badly need a quick turn-around set of testers
(from us and other sponsors) as well as a significant commitment to put
in changes on a short turn basis.
Best regards,
Geoff
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Fw: [802SEC] Fw: New IEEE Standards Store
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:17:46 -0400
From: m.plessel@ieee.org
To: thompson@ieee.org
Dear Geoff,
Thanks again for your time and input today. I'll be sure to get back to
you asap on the Xplore/Drafts re-distilling process and who were the key
players that mandated the requirements.
Best Regards,
Markus Plessel
Information Management Manager, IEEE Standards
445 Hoes Lane
Piscataway, NJ 08854
PH: +1 732 562 3989
C: +1 732 439 6004
m.plessel@ieee.org
http://standards.ieee.org <http://standards.ieee.org/>
IEEE -- Advancing Technology for Humanity
From: Geoff Thompson <thompson@ieee.org>
To: m.plessel@ieee.org
Cc: Geoff Thompson <thompson@ieee.org>
Date: 04/26/2011 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [802SEC] Fw: New IEEE Standards Store
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Markus-
Here is my contact information.
Geoffrey O. Thompson
Chair, IEEE 802.23 Emergency Services Working Group
GraCaSI Standards Advisory Services
158 Paseo Ct.
Mountain View, CA 94043-5286_
__<thompson@ieee.org>_ <mailto:thompson@ieee.org>
+1.540.227.0059
On 264//11 7:59 AM, _m.plessel@ieee.org_ <mailto:m.plessel@ieee.org> wrote:
Dear Geoff,
I'm open this AM to discuss your feedback below, however, I don't have
your contact info. Can you pass me your phone number and a preferred
time of day?
Kind Regards,
Markus Plessel
Information Management Manager, IEEE Standards
445 Hoes Lane
Piscataway, NJ 08854
PH: +1 732 562 3989
C: +1 732 439 6004_
__m.plessel@ieee.org_ <mailto:m.plessel@ieee.org>_
__http://standards.ieee.org_ <http://standards.ieee.org/>
IEEE -- Advancing Technology for Humanity
From: Geoff Thompson _<thompson@ieee.org>_ <mailto:thompson@ieee.org>
To: _m.plessel@ieee.org_ <mailto:m.plessel@ieee.org>
Cc: _C.Haberle@ieee.org_ <mailto:C.Haberle@ieee.org>, Walter Pienciak
_<w.pienciak@ieee.org>_ <mailto:w.pienciak@ieee.org>, Geoff Thompson
_<thompson@ieee.org>_ <mailto:thompson@ieee.org>
Date: 04/20/2011 06:46 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [802SEC] Fw: New IEEE Standards Store
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Markus-
I just rechecked "my experience" and things seem to come up the same way
they did on my initial try.
I would be happy to discuss things with you.
I expect to be nominally available throughout the business day, West
Coast time for the rest of the week.
(I am often out of the house at lunch time)
I have a RAC call Thursday 10 AM Pacific time.
I will be on the East Coast for a week starting next Wednesday.
Best regards,
Geoff
On 204//11 9:47 AM, _m.plessel@ieee.org_ <mailto:m.plessel@ieee.org> wrote:
Dear Geoff,
Thank you for your feedback on the Standards Store and for the annotated
attachment. Since the launch of the Standards Store, we have made many
data fixes/updates and would like to have a quick walk-through of your
experience below. This will give us a chance to hear your concerns and
expectations explicitly and answer any questions.
Please let me know what your availability is this week, if not next week.
Kind Regards,
Markus Plessel
Information Management Manager, IEEE Standards
445 Hoes Lane
Piscataway, NJ 08854
PH: +1 732 562 3989
C: +1 732 439 6004_
__m.plessel@ieee.org_ <mailto:m.plessel@ieee.org>_
__http://standards.ieee.org_ <http://standards.ieee.org/>
IEEE -- Advancing Technology for Humanity
From: Karen Mc Cabe/STDS/STAFF/US/IEEE
To: Markus Plessel/STDS/STAFF/US/IEEE@IEEE
Date: 04/08/2011 08:12 PM
Subject: Fw: [802SEC] Fw: New IEEE Standards Store
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Forwarded by Karen Mc Cabe/STDS/STAFF/US/IEEE on 04/08/2011 08:08
PM -----
From: Geoff Thompson _<thompson@ieee.org>_ <mailto:thompson@ieee.org>
To: Paul Nikolich _<paul.nikolich@att.net>_ <mailto:paul.nikolich@att.net>
Cc: _STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG_
<mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>, McCabe Karen
_<k.mccabe@ieee.org>_ <mailto:k.mccabe@ieee.org>
Date: 04/08/2011 05:48 PM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Fw: New IEEE Standards Store
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul/Karen-
My first shot at "browsing" did not portend well.
I went to LAN/MAN/PAN and was supposedly in line to get a sort by "Most
Popular"
The results of my search were significantly different than expected and
not in line with what I believe a customer would want.
Please see a PDF (attached) of the returned search pages (to which I
have annotated some comments)
Geoff
On 84//11 4:15 AM, Paul Nikolich wrote:
> Dear EC Members,
>
> Please note the below message from Karen McCabe and give the store a
try. Please provide feedback directly to Karen (_k.mccabe@ieee.org_
<mailto:k.mccabe@ieee.org>) and copy me.
>
> Regards,
>
> --Paul
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: _k.mccabe@ieee.org_ <mailto:k.mccabe@ieee.org>
> To: Paul Nikolich
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 9:24 PM
> Subject: New IEEE Standards Store
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> The new IEEE Standards Store is live. You can check it out at:
_http://standards.ieee.org/store_
>
> Thank you for "rounding up" a few IEEE 802 volunteers to test it.
>
> As we strive to fix our single sales challenges and provide a shop
environment that meets the needs of standards customers, I look forward
to working with the 802 community for its continued input and feedback!
>
> Karen
>
>
>
>
>
> Karen McCabe, CME
> Staff Director, Strategic Marketing and Product Development
> 445 Hoes Lane, PO Box 1331
> Piscataway NJ 08855 USA
> PH: +1 732 562 3824
> email: _k.mccabe@ieee.org_ <mailto:k.mccabe@ieee.org>
> _http://standards.ieee.org_ <http://standards.ieee.org/>
> IEEE - Advancing Technology for Humanity
>
> ----------
> This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector.
This list is maintained by Listserv.
>
>
[attachment "IEEE SA - Standards Store | Browse Publisher.pdf" deleted
by Markus Plessel/STDS/STAFF/US/IEEE]
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This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.