Re: [802SEC] FW: [802SEC] IEEE 802 Sunday Night Rules Review
Are there any urgent changes pending for our P&P? Mat's note said that everything he had for now was either editorial or to move toward the AudCom text. I suggest that we leave our P&P stable for another year unless there is something that is particularly urgent.
If we do find any current rules problems, we could look at whether they are something that can be addressed in our Operations Manual.
And in answer to John, I thought we were allowed to change our P&P once a year - but I also think that it would be better to touch it less often.
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 3:43 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] FW: [802SEC] IEEE 802 Sunday Night Rules Review
Bob-
So the significant question becomes:
If we want to put in ANY change to our P&P
a) Can we put it in as a simple change against our existing
approved rules for 5 years?
b) Any change can't move forward on its own merit without
swallowing whatever Audcom has done to the baseline since our approval?
c) We have to do it under some other system as yet unknown?
I would propose a form of c) where small changes ("small" is subject to
review by AudCom) can be made for 3 years without putting a new
foundation under the house. Any changes in the 3-5 year time slot would
require incorporation of the new baseline.
(This would be not terrifically unlike the 3/5 rule on revising standards)
Geoff
On 2/11/10 3:08 PM, Grow, Bob wrote:
> John:
>
> There is no rule on the frequency of baseline updates, though annualizing them has been discussed. Some of the problem you see is recognized by AudCom.
>
> Once accepted, a sponsor generally does not have to do anything until five years have passed and the P&P have to be audited again (and that is what most sponsors do). IEEE 802 LMSC is the exception with our seeming need to frequently change our P&P. Consequently, we have the problem of changing other things than what we wanted to fix because the baseline has moved.
>
> --Bob Grow
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Hawkins
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 1:07 PM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] FW: [802SEC] IEEE 802 Sunday Night Rules Review
>
> So you are contrasting our P&P with a new AudCom baseline, or the original one?
>
> How often will the AudCom baseline be changing? 'Cause if we can't
> touch ours except every X years (was it 2?), and they touch the
> baseline at a rate of less than X years (or even equal to X years) I
> see a problem...
>
> john
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 10:22 AM
>> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] IEEE 802 Sunday Night Rules Review
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I have added a new agenda topic based on input from Jon Rosdahl (see updated agenda at the end).
>>
>> I addition, I have posted a new set of revisions for the LMSC P&P on the LMSC document server (10-04 rev 2). I have gone through the AudCom baseline, and updated the current set of revisions for the current AudCom baseline. There are quite a few changes. Note that our level of conformance with the current baseline was a sticky point in getting our least P&P revision approved and posted by AudCom. So key highlights are:
>>
>> 3. Officers
>>
>> The AudCom format has become very inflexible here. I don't think we should be fully conformant, but it needs to be discussed. I'm not sure how to accommodate our various offices within their format.
>>
>> 3.1 Election or appointment of Sponsor officers
>>
>> Again, they are very inflexible concerning your approach. You are supposed to select one of 3 approaches, and ours does not directly align with any of their approaches. Also the term has been set at 1 year, not 2 years. I don't think we should comply with AudCom.
>>
>> 3.4.1 Chair
>>
>> A lot of "interesting" reporting responsibilities have been added which may have been previously delegated.
>>
>> 3.4.3 Recording Secretary
>>
>> The timing on when certain documentation should be provided has been changed a bit.
>>
>> 4.1 Voting membership
>>
>> You are required to "apply" for membership. This can be finessed but I'm not sure if we need to change our processes a bit.
>>
>>
>> 6. Meetings
>>
>> Here too, the rules they are a changing....
>>
>> New rules on meeting fees, and how to take minutes. Probably not much impact, but it should be reviewed...
>>
>>
>> 7. Vote
>>
>> There are a lot of changes in these sections. I encourage everyone to review them and comment. I don't see anything objectionable, but others might.
>>
>>
>> There are many more minor changes. Right now, I believe everything in this set of revisions is intended to be either editorial, or to bring us into conformance with AudCom. I encourage everyone to download the actual document and review the readlined changes. If there are any other significant changes to our P&P people desire, please put them on the table so they can be discussed. I'd like to try and vote this in November as our "yearly" change. We can also defer to March, but I'd prefer to sync our changes with the end of the calendar year for our change schedule.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is the current Agenda:
>>
>> Rules for WG "Letter Ballot" balloting groups
>> Rules for Interim meetings
>> Review current ballot on LMSC P&P revision
>> This has been on-going for 2 cycles since we only submit one change a year
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Mat
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
>> Engineering Fellow
>> BAE Systems - Electronics, Intelligence& Support (EI&S)
>> Office: +1 973.633.6344
>> Cell: +1 973.229.9520
>> email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
>> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 9:54 PM
>> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: [802SEC] IEEE 802 Sunday Night Rules Review (1 week from today!)
>>
>> All,
>>
>> Happy Holloween! I'd like to this opportunity to remind you that the IEEE 802 Sunday Night Rules review will be held just one week from now!
>>
>> Sunday Nov 7th from 6 PM to 10 PM in the Pryor-Crockett conference room.
>>
>> If you have any specific agenda items you would like to see, let me know.
>>
>> So far I have:
>>
>> Rules for WG "Letter Ballot" balloting groups
>> Review current ballot on LMSC P&P revision
>> This has been on-going for 2 cycles since we only submit one change a year
>>
>> Regards to all,
>>
>> Mat
>>
>> Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
>> Engineering Fellow
>> BAE Systems - Electronics, Intelligence& Support (EI&S)
>> Office: +1 973.633.6344
>> Cell: +1 973.229.9520
>> email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com<mailto:matthew.sherman@baesystems.com>
>>
>>
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