Re: [802SEC] Governmental and standards body communication in the OM
Pat-
I do not agree that "ISO/IEC JTC-1 has a similar membership model".
ITU is a treaty organization under the charter of the UN. For a great deal
of its history its only member were delegations provided by the diplomatic
arms of their member bodies. They have broadened their membership to
"sector members" but the national body delegations are still driven and
managed by the diplomatic arms of their member bodies. The US delegations
to ITU are "supervised" by an expert from the state department. None of
this has anything at all to do with (as far as I know) ANSI.
ISO, IEC and JTC1 are internationally recognized standards organizations
that grant voting membership to "national bodies". "National bodies" are 1
per recognized government and are generally driven by each countries
governmental standards body (equivalent to NIST in the US) or their
standards organization (equivalent to ANSI in the US). In the US (if it
were "all government) this would be equivalent to the difference between
the State Department and the Department of Commerce.
The crispness of the distinction varies from country to country but the
resulting international organizations are truly different. The national
bodies of many countries are de coupled from their government. ITU
delegation are not.
Now having said all of that, I do agree with Bob. The ITU-T work that we
see is largely technical and they want technical information from us. Most
of what I have seen would just be a pain-in-the-neck for the EC.
Best regards,
Geoff
At 01:04 PM 7/2/2008 , Pat Thaler wrote:
Bob,
I agree. I also don't think that state membership makes a group
intergovenmental. ISO/IEC JTC-1 has a similar membership model but we don't
consider them an intergovernmental body.
When the main focus is creation of voluntary standards rather than
regulation, I think we should deal with them as an SDO. When the main focus
is regulatory, then the governmental model that we apply to other
regulatory bodies should apply. If there is a way to draw a bright line
between those two functions in ITU, we should do it, possibly in an note or
annex to the OM.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Grow, Bob
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 12:24 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Governmental and standards body communication in
the OM
Pat, Mike:
It certainly hasn't be the practice of 802.3 to go through the EC on
Ethernet matters from ITU-T. 802.3 has received occasional direct requests
for consideration of technical features, to give or receive advice on
Ethernet features, to discuss usage of EtherTypes and similar things
Ethernet. A recent area of interaction has been on 40 Gb/s and 100 Gb/s
Ethernet (e.g., mapping those interfaces to OTN). All communications were
clearly from and to 802.3, or in some cases under the informal
communications encouraged for subgroups between an ITU-T subgroup and
HSSG/P802.3ba.
I doubt the EC wants to see and approve those kind of communications.
--Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Michael Lynch
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 1:57 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Governmental and standards body communication in
the OM
Pat,
I've been looking at this and maybe it would be good to provide some
definition of both what the ITU is and what it does. Also the process
that IEEE SA has in place to deal with inputs to ITU-R, ITU-T and ITU-D.
All of the ITU is an intergovernmental organization. The terms of
reference for the ITU are defined in the Constitution and Convention
(CS/CV) by the Member States. Sector Members and Associate Members are
permitted to join and participate but companies joining are required to
have Member State approval. Some may see ITU-T as an SDO which is
logical but it is still controlled by Member States. Some may view the
ITU-R as being only regulatory in nature but that is just one of its
roles.
ITU-T may create standards which are called recommendations. But there
is regulatory work done there, at least in the realm of setting telecom
settlement rates and the International Telecommunication Regulations
(ITRs). Both of those are certainly a Member State matters and it is
expected that there will be a revision of the ITRs done in the next year
or two. Member States are able to block the approval of ITU-T
recommendations. IEEE SA has a technical liaison to ITU-T who should
function the same as I do in my role as the technical liaison between
the SA and ITU-R.
ITU-R does have a regulatory function and creates a treaty known as the
Radio Regulations (RR). It also creates recommendations that identify
standards from outside of ITU-R for specific purposes, e.g. IMT.
Additionally it creates recommendations that are not based on other
SDO's standards. For example the recommendation from SG1 (SM.329) on oob
emissions. The 2003 World Radiocommunication Conference (WRC) took text
from that recommendation and included it in Appendix 3 of the RR. Other
recommendations have been incorporated by reference in the RR which
makes them mandatory. So ITU-R should also be seen as a SDO in addition
to being a global regulatory body.
I would suggest that both ITU-T and ITU-R be treated in the same manner,
that is as intergovernmental bodies. If indeed the IEEE SA ITU-T liaison
functions in the same manner as the liaison for ITU-R then ITU-T inputs
should be handled by that person. It seems unlikely that IEEE 802 inputs
would have a regulatory impact in ITU-T but should be considered and
approved by the EC just as inputs to ITU-R are done, the latter of
course after approval by 802.18.
Hopefully this is some help. It seems we will have an interesting Sunday
evening in Denver.
Regards,
Mike
________________________________
From: Pat Thaler [mailto:pthaler@broadcom.com]
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 20:52
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; Lynch, Michael (RICH1:2T00)
Subject: Governmental and standards body communication in the OM
Mike,
An issue arose during the comment resolution meeting on which we would
like your input.
We have separate procedures for communications with other standards
bodies and with governmental and intergovernmental bodies but in the
past there has been some confusion regarding the ITU because it involves
aspects of both. I would like to avoid having to figure out which rule
applies in the heat of the moment. Is there some clarification that we
can add to the P&P to distinguish the two? For example, the portion of
ITU that regulates spectrum use vs the standards making in ITU-R and
ITU-T?
The comment reference is 135.
Regards,
Pat
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