Re: [802SEC] +++ 802 EC motion to allow consideration of 802.11 PARs in July
I am not trying to make an issue out of the motion but tryying to say that rules should be clearly stated.
You certainly should not take out any disagreement you may have with my rationale on Bruce.
Regards
Mark
________________________________
From: Geoff Thompson
To: Klerer, Mark
Cc: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Sun Jun 22 12:52:01 2008
Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++ 802 EC motion to allow consideration of 802.11 PARs in July
Mark-
The requirement is precisely that:
"Complete PARs shall be circulated via the EC email reflector to all EC members no less than 30 days prior to the day of the Opening EC meeting of an LMSC plenary session."
When this rule was made it was well known that:
a) The EC reflector was an open reflector that non-members of the EC could (i) join and (ii) view as an archive.
b) That (at least some) WGs have a requirement that their WG chairs announce their agenda 30 days in advance so that participants actually have reasonable grounds upon which to decide whether or not to attend a plenary.
Therefore, there IS A REQUIREMENT that "Complete PARs" SHALL be made available to the members of the EC in a manner that is public.
Distributing them to each working group chair in any sort of private manner such as:
Private e-mail
Registered US Mail with return receipt
Fed-Ex Courier Delivery
does not meet the requirement.
Your rationale is incorrect.
Initially I was willing to cut Bruce and James a little slack for missing the deadline but since you seem to be making an issue of the rule, my position is forced to be that the requirements were clearly not met.
Therefore, I speak AGAINST the motion
Sincerely,
Geoff Thompson
Member Emeritus
At 09:01 PM 6/21/2008 , Klerer, Mark wrote:
Pat
I believe my rationale is correct; it is important that we realize what the rules actually say rather than what an individual may be able to do as a result of the rules.
With respect to the requirement it is "Complete PARs shall be circulated via the EC email reflector to all EC members no less than 30 days prior to the day of the Opening EC meeting of an LMSC plenary session." So the requirement is applicable for the PAR to be available to EC members. There is no REQUIREMENT that it be available to any-one else in that timeframe. Yes someone could try to check the EC e-mail archives (which are actually not easy to find) but that does not make availability to anyone else a requirement. Also there is no requirement that I can find anyplace for an e-mail archive.
The only requirement for non-ec members is the comment cycle during the plenary week.
If we want anything else to be required we should make sure that that is reflected in any revisions we make to the rules.
Regards,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Thaler [mailto:pthaler@broadcom.com]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:33 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; Klerer, Mark
Subject: RE: +++ 802 EC motion to allow consideration of 802.11 PARs in July
+++++++ Corrected text of motion: +++++
Dear Colleagues,
This is a 10 day email ballot of the IEEE 802 EC. This ballot will close
30 June 2008 (anywhere on Earth). Paul has delegated conduct of this
ballot to me. Because this is a ballot to suspend the rules, Paul has
ruled that it will require a vote of 2/3 of EC with voting rights
members to pass.
Motion:
This motion is for the PARs:
<https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0716-00-0vht-below-6-ghz-p
a<https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0716-00-0vht-below-6-ghz-pa>>
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0716-00-0vht-below-6-ghz-pa
r-nescom-form.doc
<https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0716-00-0vht-below-6-ghz-p
ar-nescom-form.doc<https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0716-00-0vht-below-6-ghz-par-nescom-form.doc>>
<https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0715-00-0vht-60-ghz-par-ne
s<https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0715-00-0vht-60-ghz-par-nes>>
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0715-00-0vht-60-ghz-par-nes
com-form.doc
which were to the EC circulated 2 days less than the required 30 days
prior to the Opening Excecutive Committee meeting of the July 2008
plenary.
Moved to Suspend the rules to allow consideration of the 802.11 Below 6
GHz PAR and the 802.11 60 GHz PAR at the July 2008 closing EC meeting.
Mover: Pat Thaler
Seconder: Bruce Kraemer
Regards,
Pat Thaler
Good catch Mark, I had intended to remove that because I decided it
wasn't necessary - if a WG has a problem with the PARs it can use the
comment process. And I think people should know whether the EC is going
to allow the motion before the meeting.
Note however that I disagree with your rationale. The 30 day in advance
rule is to circulate to the EC reflector, not just the EC. That means
that any member can see those announcements by checking the EC reflector
30 days before the meeting. They don't need to depend on their chairs to
circulate the information.
-----Original Message-----
From: Klerer, Mark [mailto:mklerer@qualcomm.com]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 2:17 PM
To: Pat Thaler; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: +++ 802 EC motion to allow consideration of 802.11 PARs in
July
Why do we have the "except clause" for a WG objecting? Will the WG have
to object by a simple majority vote? There is no requirement for each WG
to see it 30 days in advance just for the EC. The individual WG chairs
can than circulate that information. So I would not complicate the
motion with that proviso.
Anyway I will vote approve either way.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Pat Thaler
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 4:54 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: +++ 802 EC motion to allow consideration of 802.11 PARs in July
Dear Colleagues,
This is a 10 day email ballot of the IEEE 802 EC. This ballot will close
30 June 2008 (anywhere on Earth). Paul has delegated conduct of this
ballot to me. Because this is a ballot to suspend the rules, Paul has
ruled that it will require a vote of 2/3 of EC with voting rights
members to pass.
Motion:
This motion is for the PARs:
<https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0716-00-0vht-below-6-ghz-p
a<https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0716-00-0vht-below-6-ghz-pa>>
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0716-00-0vht-below-6-ghz-pa
r-nescom-form.doc
<https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0716-00-0vht-below-6-ghz-p
ar-nescom-form.doc<https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0716-00-0vht-below-6-ghz-par-nescom-form.doc>>
<https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0715-00-0vht-60-ghz-par-ne
s<https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0715-00-0vht-60-ghz-par-nes>>
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/file/08/11-08-0715-00-0vht-60-ghz-par-nes
com-form.doc
which were to the EC circulated 2 days less than the required 30 days
prior to the Opening Excecutive Committee meeting of the July 2008
plenary.
Moved to Suspend the rules to allow consideration of the 802.11 Below 6
GHz PAR and the 802.11 60 GHz PAR at the July 2008 closing EC meeting.
Mover: Pat Thaler
Seconder: Bruce Kraemer
Regards,
Pat Thaler
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