Re: [802SEC] 802.11 PARs for Friday's agenda
Steve,
No we are not trying to change the P&P. We all know what I am trying to
faciliate, maybe it can't be done. Constructive criticism is welcome. But
first, let's let Pat do her RR research to see if she can describe what is
the proper way forward.
--Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shellhammer, Steve" <sshellha@qualcomm.com>
To: "Paul Nikolich" <paul.nikolich@ATT.NET>;
<STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:24 PM
Subject: RE: [802SEC] 802.11 PARs for Friday's agenda
Paul,
Are we trying to change the P&P by just making a motion? If I
recall correctly, Bob O'Hara use to tell us all the time that we can't
do that. Since he is not on the EC any more I felt obligated to mention
it.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Paul Nikolich
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:18 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] 802.11 PARs for Friday's agenda
All,
I suggest the EC consider the two 802.11 PARs following the normal PAR
procedure if and only if the EC explicitly grants the 802.11 WG chair a
reduction of the 30 day circulation requirement to 28 days for the two
802.11 PARs via an EC email ballot on a motion requesting the
requirement
reduction.
I'm not sure what the approval threshold for a rule waiver is per RR,
but I
would require a >3/4 approval threshold (with all voting EC members in
the
denominator).
I'll start an EC email ballot if someone is willing to make a motion and
find a second.
Regards,
--Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Kraemer" <bkraemer@MARVELL.COM>
To: <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] PARs for Friday's agenda
> Tony,
>
> You've raised a number of points that I accept going forward and would
> certainly pledge to avoid any repeat offences.
>
> Much of what you refer to should be captured in what I might refer to
as
> a "Chair's guide document" that collects standard practices that
> augment rules and procedures not otherwise covered in either the P&P
or
> the OM.
>
> With your permission I'll take the material below and start a chapter
on
> this topic for further consideration prior to or during the July
> plenary.
>
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Tony
Jeffree
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:05 AM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] PARs for Friday's agenda
>
> I would agree that 802.11 should not be penalized in this instance;
> however, if we are granting an exception here it should be a one-time
> exception, period, and not a license for all of the newbie EC members
> to assume that they will be granted a one-time "get out of jail free"
> card.
>
> However, I would make a few observations about the process of
> submitting files for EC consideration:
>
> Firstly, in my understanding, it is the Chair's responsibility (and
> not the Recording Secretary's) to do any circulation that is required
> in the P&P. This is the only occasion that I can remember when a
> Chair has passed the problem over to the RS to execute; in reality,
> once he had the PDFs all James did was to circulate them as
> attachments to an email, which the .11 Chair could have done himself
> (but please see below!), so apart from increasing the RS's workload
> and causing the submission deadline to be missed, its not clear to me
> what value was added there.
>
> Secondly, there is no requirement anywhere in our P&P (nor should
> there be IMHO) stipulating PDF as the format for submissions. The P&P
> simply state that the PAR and 5C "...shall be circulated via the EC
> reflector...", so it isn't at all clear to me on what basis James
> made that stipulation.
>
> Thirdly, and as far as I am concerned, this goes for all materials
> that EC members need to circulate to each other, sending stuff as
> attachments to emails is a royal PIA for the recipients, especially
> for things like PARs and 5C's, or other materials where EC members
> need to make their own constituents aware of the material. 802.1's
> email reflector, for example, has a size limit on attachments as part
> of our (very successful) SPAM filtering measures. I also don't like
> gratuitously inflicting attachments of any size on members of the .1
> reflector; I know high speed access is commonplace these days, but
> some recipients (myself included) sometimes have to use low bandwidth
> network connections to access their email. So if I receive a file
> that has to be circulated to my WG, I end up posting it on my WG
> website, which is simply making more work for me. This also means
> that the unsolicited addition to my workload gets prioritized, and
> can fall off the bottom of the stack as a result. Far better, and a
> considerable courtesy to those that have to circulate the material
> elsewhere, is for the sender to post the material on their WG or the
> EC website and email the URL(s) to the EC. In fact, I would go as far
> as suggesting that we codify that as a requirement in our new
> operations manual. (Aside: There is a potential bottleneck with
> uploading to the EC reflector, as not all of us have upload access;
> however, it is worth noting that Luigi Napoli has recently
> implemented an uploads webpage for 802.1 that allows anyone to submit
> a file to an uploads subdirectory, and for the appropriate 802.1
> officer to be notified - see http://ieee802.org/cgi-bin/upload_8021.
> No reason why that shouldn't be done for the EC website, and have the
> EC reflector as the recipient of the notifications.)
>
> So I would respectfully request the .11 Chair to post the PAR and 5C
> files on the .11 website (in reality, my guess is that they were
> there already, and if not, they should be!) and then email the
> reflector with the URLs.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
> At 23:40 16/06/2008, Michael Lynch wrote:
>>James,
>>
>>I agree that .11 should not be penalized if the documents were
>>submitted to you on time.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "James Gilb" <gilb@IEEE.ORG>
>>To: "STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
>>Sent: 6/16/08 17:29
>>Subject: Re: [802SEC] PARs for Friday's agenda
>>
>>Pat
>>
>>Bruce sent me these on time, but I had a mix up in email and didn't
get
>>them posted until today.
>>
>>I don't think 802.11 should be punished for my mistake.
>>
>>Bruce will follow up and post the 5 criteria.
>>
>>James Gilb
>>
>>Pat Thaler wrote:
>> > James,
>> >
>> > There is a problem. Our P&P have a specific procedure for approving
> new
>> > PARs (Clause 17). 17.2 contains the requirement:
>> >
>> > "Complete PARs shall be circulated via the EC email reflector to
all
>> > Executive Committee members no less than 30 days prior to the day
of
> the
>> > Opening Executive Committee meeting of an LMSC Plenary session."
>> >
>> > You sent this today, June 16. Our Opening EC meeting is July 14.
> That is
>> > 28 days prior, not the required 30 days. There is an exemption to
> this
>> > rule for Maintenance PARs, division of existing work items and
> similar
>> > routine items but that wouldn't apply to either of these.
>> >
>> > Also, you didn't supply the 5 criteria for either of these. That
> needs
>> > to be precirculated along with the PAR for any PAR that introduces
> new
>> > functionality - which both these PARs do.
>> >
>> > I'm sorry, but I don't see how we can consider these PARs in July
> under
>> > our rules.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Pat
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
>> > [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of James Gilb
>> > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:49 PM
>> > To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> > Subject: [802SEC] PARs for Friday's agenda
>> >
>> > All
>> >
>> > Here are two PARs for consideration at our closing plenary. They
> are
>> > from 802.11.
>> >
>> > James Gilb
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email
reflector.
>> > This list is maintained by Listserv.
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email
>> reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.
>> >
>>
>>----------
>>This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email
>>reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.
>>
>>----------
>>This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email
>>reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.
>
> ----------
> This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector.
> This list is maintained by Listserv.
>
> ----------
> This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector.
This
> list is maintained by Listserv.
----------
This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector.
This list is maintained by Listserv.
----------
This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.