Re: [802SEC] a sensible way forward? nNA venues for 2011 and 2012
Geoff,
Right. On the other hand, it's possible to take a ferry directly from
the Hong Kong Intl Airport to Macao, bypassing Hong Kong immigration
and customs. This can save some time and hassle. It also eliminates
the need for a Hong Kong visa (though nationals of most countries
don't need one for Hong Kong anyway).
As I mentioned to the EC last July, 802.16 will be meeting at the
Venetian Macao in May.
Roger
On Dec 18, 2007, at 05:02 PM, Geoff Thompson wrote:
> Buzz-
>
> That "the Venetian Macao in the Hong Kong province of PRC" is an
> incorrect statement.
>
> Hong Kong is not a "province" but rather a "Special Administrative
> Region" (S.A.R.). Macau is not within the Hong Kong S.A.R. but is
> within a separate and distinct S.A.R. of its own. Hong Kong was a
> British Territory, Macau belonged to Portugal. Chinese and
> Portuguese are the two official languages
>
> Geoff
>
>
> At 03:26 PM 12/18/2007 , Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
>> Hi Pat,
>>
>> Not sure the motion is necessary. We were in agreement with the
>> proposal from the start, and based on the fact that there were no
>> objections to the proposal, we have adopted and are already
>> following the proposal and timeline to get us to confirmed sites
>> by July 2008.
>>
>> The really good news is that by readjusting our sites for March
>> 2011 and beyond there are now some really awesome venue choices
>> available for us that could solve our nNA venue problems for us
>> permanently.
>>
>> We already have 2 candidate venues with hosts lined up: one for
>> the 2500 room Marina Bay Sands Hotel in downtown Singapore that
>> has over 1,000,000 sq.ft. of function space, 10 restaurants, a spa
>> and fitness center, and a science & art museum; the other for the
>> Venetian Macao in the Hong Kong province of PRC, which has 3000
>> all-suites rooms and over 1,000,000 sq.ft. of meeting space. Both
>> of these could easily do a IEEE-802 plenary and at much more
>> affordable prices than what we were seeing for Rome. We will
>> still follow the Roger process to ensure we find the best deals
>> available but it is very nice to start off with something greater
>> than the empty set to consider in our deliberations. So I think
>> this time we are going to get some great choices.
>>
>> See the links below for more info:
>>
>> Marina Bay Sands: http://www.marinabaysands.com/index.html
>>
>> Venetian Macau: http://www.venetianmacao.com/en/home.aspx
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanx, Buzz
>> Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>> Boeing IT
>> PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>> Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>> Ph: (425) 373-8960 Fx: (425) 865-7960
>> Cell: (425) 417-1022
>> everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pat Thaler [mailto:pthaler@BROADCOM.COM]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:28 PM
>> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] a sensible way forward? nNA venues for 2011 and
>> 2012
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> Can we run this motion? I am concerned that if we don't start it
>> soon we
>> will lose the ability to start the non-NA proposal process with
>> tentative proposals due for our March meeting and firm proposals in
>> July. If it pushes out further, it may make March 2011 very
>> difficult.
>>
>> In my last email I pointed out that it is more efficient for us to
>> work
>> on planning for these three meetings in the same proposal cycle.
>> Running
>> a concurrent process for the three plenaries may also make it
>> easier for
>> potential hosts. When they contact possible venues, they can ask
>> about
>> availabilty for any of the three dates.
>>
>> On Dec 3, 2007, at 07:37 PM, Pat Thaler wrote:
>>
>> > Based on Buzz's input regarding university venues, I am removing
>> July
>> > 2012 and adding in July 2013.
>> >
>> > I suggest a motion as follows:
>> >
>> > To adopt the following process for finding and choosing non-North
>> > American plenary venues for March 2011 and March 2012, July 2013
>> >
>> > (1) by 15 January: IEEE 802 Executive Secretary issues a draft
>> set of
>> > facility requirements and issues a Request for Interest (RfI)
>> seeking
>> > a letter of intent from any prospective hosts.
>> > (2) 7 March: Deadline for letter of intent that would name
>> > prospective host and venue but without a firm commitment to host.
>> > (3) 21 March: 802 EC approves a request for proposals (RfP),
>> > including facility requirements and hosting specifications, with a
>> > specific submittal template to allow ready intercomparison. 802 EC
>> > also authorizes travel expenses for site visits to prospective
>> hosts
>> > identified by letter of intent.
>> > (4) 20 June: Deadline for host proposals issued in response to the
>> > RfP.
>> > (5) 1 July: Executive Secretary submits report summarizing
>> proposals
>> > and results of site visits.
>> > (6) 14 July: During a tutorial slot, host candidates overview their
>> > proposals.
>> > (7) 18 July: 802 EC votes to accept proposals.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Pat
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
>> > [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Paul Nikolich
>> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 7:42 AM
>> > To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> > Subject: [802SEC] a sensible way forward? nNA venues for 2011
>> and 2012
>> >
>> > All,
>> >
>> > Tony's suggestion: "... I would prefer to see us pass a motion
>> > accepting
>> >
>> > Roger's proposed process (or some near variant thereof) for
>> choosing
>> > potential nNA venues in the future, and that we follow up by
>> actually
>> > getting our hands dirty with finding some candidates to choose
>> > between."
>> >
>> > makes sense to me.
>> >
>> > FYI the SASB meetings are being held this week and I need to pay
>> close
>> > attention to what is happening down there in FL, so I'd like to put
>> > taking
>> > any action on the nNA issue on hold for a week--but let the debate
>> > continue,
>> > perhaps by next Monday we'll have a sensible motion crafted that
>> > will be
>> >
>> > ready for email ballot to close before the end of the year
>> holidays?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > --Paul
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Tony Jeffree" <tony@JEFFREE.CO.UK>
>> > To: <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
>> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 9:04 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [802SEC] Motion re: nNA venues for 2011 and 2012
>> >
>> >
>> >> At 01:26 03/12/2007, Sherman, Matthew J. \(US SSA\) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Tony,
>> >>>
>> >>> First I am fully supportive of Roger's plan and think we
>> should go
>> >>> forward.
>> >>
>> >> In which case I am sure you would have no problem supporting a
>> motion
>> > that
>> >> approves that as a plan going forward.
>> >>
>> >>> I recognize that many of us are now getting involved and
>> >>> trying to assist Buzz.
>> >>
>> >> The point I was trying to make is that until we are *all* (and
>> I mean
>> > all,
>> >> not just a few or even the majority) actively involved in
>> fixing this
>> >> problem, then
>> >>
>> >> (a) the likelihood of it getting fixed is small,
>> >>
>> >> and
>> >>
>> >> (b) we have no business passing motions of the form "Until they
>> fix
>> > the
>> >> problem then they can't do X".
>> >>
>> >>> But it bothers me that we have worked on this
>> >>> for 3 years (if I've understood correctly) without finding a
>> >>> solution,
>> >>> and that we now have at least 4 more years (5 since we just gave
>> >>> away
>> >>> 2011 as well as 2009 as being potentially to 'too hard' to take
>> > non-NA).
>> >>> Where does it end?
>> >>
>> >> ...but that is precisely my point. "We", for the most part,
>> haven't
>> > been
>> >> working on it *at all* other than offering occasional
>> >> encouragement to
>> >
>> >> others and passing the odd motion. Big deal. Its time we stopped
>> > passing
>> >> vacuous motions and got with the program.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> I think we need to place a strong focus on solving the
>> problem. The
>> >>> fact that there is a 'safe solution' I believe is preventing
>> us from
>> >>> focusing on solving the problem. It's time to fly without a net.
>> >>
>> >> I'm sorry...that doesn't make much more sense to me than your
>> > "learning
>> >> from experience" comment earlier in the discussion.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> By the way, we already ripped up one decision we made that would
>> >>> have
>> >>> forced us to go to Rome (non-NA). We can always rip up this
>> motion
>> > too
>> >>> if it becomes apparent we can't find a venue.
>> >>
>> >> In which case, why bother to make the motion in the first place?
>> >>
>> >>> But I would like that for
>> >>> at least one year Buzz truly focuses on finding a non-NA venue
>> with
>> > out
>> >>> the distraction of NA venues to consider.
>> >>
>> >> I repeat, I would like for *us all* to truly focus on the problem.
>> > Buzz is
>> >> a volunteer, just like the rest of us; this isn't his only job.
>> And
>> > there
>> >> is a limit to what one person can do in a situation where we are
>> >> attempting to do something that is new for the organisation and
>> may
>> > not
>> >> necessarily conform to the way business is routinely done in
>> NA. He
>> >> doesn't need us making more rods for his back; what he needs is
>> > practical
>> >> help and support. Lets start doing that.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Tony
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Mat
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
>> >>> Engineering Fellow
>> >>> BAE Systems - Network Systems (NS)
>> >>> Office: +1 973.633.6344
>> >>> Cell: +1 973.229.9520
>> >>> email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
>> >>> [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Tony Jeffree
>> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 2:05 PM
>> >>> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> >>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Motion re: nNA venues for 2011 and 2012
>> >>>
>> >>> Carl -
>> >>>
>> >>> While I support the desired end result of this motion (that we
>> get
>> >>> nNA meetings ASAP), I feel that it is ill-advised.
>> >>>
>> >>> Firstly, making motions isn't going to make nNA meetings
>> happen. The
>> >>> only thing that will ensure that it will happen is all of us (not
>> >>> just Buzz, Bob H or Face-To-Face) doing what is in our power to
>> >>> actively pursue possible venues. Right now, I am already doing
>> just
>> >>> that with my old University (which will of course only be a
>> viable
>> >>> choice as a July meeting, so preesumably wouldn't meet the
>> >>> requirements of your motion anyway); I don't know yet whether it
>> >>> is a
>> >>> viable venue, but there's only one way to find out. If that one
>> >>> fails, then I will look elsewhere for a campus venue in the
>> UK. We
>> >>> all have contacts of one form or another (via clients,
>> employers, WG
>> >>> members... whatever) that we could potentially tap into. For my
>> >>> money, that is a more fruitful approach.
>> >>>
>> >>> Secondly, Putting this kind of straight-jacket on what we can and
>> >>> cannot book has the potential fallout (as Buzz has already
>> pointed
>> >>> out) that we end up with no palatable venues at all for the empty
>> >>> slots 2011 on. I don't think that is what we want to happen.
>> >>>
>> >>> So rather than making what seems to me to be a rather empty
>> gesture
>> >>> by passing a "Make it so" motion, I would prefer to see us pass a
>> >>> motion accepting Roger's proposed process (or some near variant
>> >>> thereof) for choosing potential nNA venues in the future, and
>> >>> that we
>> >>> follow up by actually getting our hands dirty with finding some
>> >>> candidates to choose between.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>> Tony
>> >>>
>> >>> At 13:30 02/12/2007, Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
>> >>>> I would accept the following change to my original motion:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Moved: That 802 sign no contracts for NA plenary venues
>> beyond 2011
>> >>> until we
>> >>>> have viable, affordable nNA venues in place for March 2011 and
>> >>>> 2012.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> That will give Buzz the flexibility to book July and Nov 2011
>> (for
>> >>> which he
>> >>>> apparently has deals in the works, if I understand Mat's comment
>> >>> correctly),
>> >>>> but require us to focus remaining energy in the near term to
>> >>>> finding
>> >>> nNA
>> >>>> venues for March 2011 and a 2012 plenary, which could be any
>> of the
>> >>> three.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mat, do I have it right and do you second the ammended motion
>> >>>> above?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Regards,
>> >>>> Carl
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> >>>>> [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of
>> >>>>> Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 1:07 AM
>> >>>>> To: Rigsbee, Everett O; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Motion re: nNA venues for 2011 and 2012
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> First,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I am willing to second Carl's motion (but with a friendly
>> >>> amendment).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I can accept booking 2011 as a North American venue. There
>> >>>>> is only the March meeting left and I think Buzz has already
>> >>>>> worked the deals.
>> >>>>> However I believe we should be focusing all our energy on
>> >>>>> Non-NA venues after that.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> So my recommended motion if Carl will accept it is:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Moved: That 802 sign no further contracts for NA plenary
>> >>>>> venues beyond
>> >>>>> 2011 until we have *viable, affordable* nNA venues in place for
>> >>> 2012.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Until we start getting working non-NA venues, I think we all
>> >>>>> need to chip in and assist Buzz. But we need to light a fire
>> >>>>> underneath ourselves. 6 years to figure out how to do this
>> >>>>> is simply too long.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Mat
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
>> >>>>> Engineering Fellow
>> >>>>> BAE Systems - Network Systems (NS)
>> >>>>> Office: +1 973.633.6344
>> >>>>> Cell: +1 973.229.9520
>> >>>>> email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
>> >>>>> [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Rigsbee,
>> >>>>> Everett O
>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 1:27 PM
>> >>>>> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Motion re: nNA venues for 2011 and 2012
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Colleagues, This motion is a really "BAD" idea for several
>> >>> reasons
>> >>>>> but I will explain a couple of them in some detail:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 1. We have NO definitions for what is "viable" and what is
>> >>>>> "affordable"
>> >>>>> beyond what we got in our last survey, which several people
>> >>>>> seem to think was flawed in one or more ways. So I would
>> >>>>> suggest that if we want to put any qualifiers on nNA venue
>> >>>>> selections we need to do some homework to decide what are the
>> >>>>> appropriate qualifiers to ensure that they produce the best
>> >>>>> Good for all of IEEE-802. I tend to agree with Roger Marks
>> >>>>> that the best nNA venues will be those that have good support
>> >>>>> from local hosts but finding appropriate hosts for nNA venues
>> >>>>> will take some time as we have seen from Roger's schedule.
>> >>>>> And when have we reached our goal ??? When we have selected
>> >>>>> a site for 2011, or when we actually have all contracts in
>> >>>>> place, which might take up to a year after selection? Do we
>> >>>>> also have to have a completed deal for March 2012 as well ???
>> >>>>> That might take another year to complete. How do we know,
>> >>>>> "Are we done yet ???"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 2. Meanwhile we have open slots in our schedule that we need
>> >>>>> to book 3 to 4 years out to get access to any of the venues
>> >>>>> we actually like, such as San Francisco, Maui, New Orleans,
>> >>>>> and San Antonio. If we are not actively booking those slots
>> >>>>> while we have good choices available, I can absolutely
>> >>>>> guarantee that you will NOT like the choices we have at only
>> >>>>> 2 years out (are we ready for HR-DFW or Hilton WDW again
>> >>>>> ???). Right now we do have some good choices that we have
>> >>>>> spent many hours working to bring you, but if we pass on
>> >>>>> those for an indefinite period, you will not get another shot
>> >>>>> at them. If we want to consider some constraints on future
>> >>>>> venues let's focus on those that are in 2013 and beyond but I
>> >>>>> would suggest that we do that by just not supporting venues
>> >>>>> further out until we have some nNA venues on the schedule.
>> >>>>> But I sincerely believe each venue needs to be judged on its
>> >>>>> own merits and that we need to continuously seek guidance
>> >>>>> from our membership as to what is really most important to
>> >>>>> the success of the organization as a whole.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanx, Buzz
>> >>>>> Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>> >>>>> Boeing IT
>> >>>>> PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>> >>>>> Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>> >>>>> Ph: (425) 373-8960 Fx: (425) 865-7960
>> >>>>> Cell: (425) 417-1022
>> >>>>> everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: Carl R. Stevenson [mailto:wk3c@wk3c.com]
>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 8:17 AM
>> >>>>> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> >>>>> Subject: [802SEC] Motion re: nNA venues for 2011 and 2012
>> >>>>> Importance: High
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Having been asked to wait until the previous ballot closed,
>> >>>>> the following would now appear to be timely.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Moved: That 802 sign no further contracts for NA plenary
>> >>>>> venues until we have *viable, affordable* nNA venues in place
>> >>>>> for 2011 and 2012.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Background: It appears that we require some "feet to the fire"
>> >>>>> motivation to
>> >>>>> find, select, and contract for nNA plenary venues. This
>> >>>>> motion, if approved, would require that we meet our 3 year
>> >>>>> old policy objective to hold at least one nNA plenary
>> >>>>> annually, starting at the earliest possible time and assure
>> >>>>> that ALL possible plenary session dates that are not already
>> >>>>> contracted for be considered for nNA until we have contracted
>> >>>>> viable, affordable nNA venues for 2011 and 2012.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Regards from the BoG meeting in Florida,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Carl
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ----------
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