Re: [802SEC] Question of clarification and summary: Motion to amend Rome to Vancouver
Paul, If you're going to do editorial corrections had better replace
"Vancouver" with "Vancouver BC, Canada" so we don't have any possibility
of confusion. Other than that, I heartily support the motion as
amended. Thanx for getting us back on track. :-)
Thanx, Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing IT
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA 98124-2207
Ph: (425) 373-8960 Fx: (425) 865-7960
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Nikolich [mailto:paul.nikolich@ATT.NET]
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:06 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] Question of clarification and summary: Motion to amend
Rome to Vancouver
All,
I have a question of clarification before making a ruling on the motion
to amend--does the below motion require the session to still be open in
order for it to be valid? My reading is that it does not. (In my
opinion the November plenary session ended when our closing EC meeting
adjourned. I will rule any motion that require the session to still be
open to be out of order.)
The current motion presented to the EC chair for consideration:
Moved Thaler, Second Grow: Motion to amend the previously adopted motion
to replace "Rome" with "Vancouver".
Definitions:
"the previously adopted motion" = "Motion to approve the selection of
Rome, Italy as the venue for the March 2009 Plenary Session", 8/6/1
Passed
(this is from item 10.02 nNA Plenary venue survey results and final
venue selection at the closing EC meeting.)
Therefore the potential motion under the chair's consideration is:
""Motion to approve the selection of Vancouver as the venue for the
March 2009 Plenary Session", (I removed the word "Italy" as an
editorial correction)
Regards,
--Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)" <matthew.sherman@BAESYSTEMS.COM>
To: <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Motion to amend Rome to Vancouver
> Understood, but bottom line is Robert's Rules is a guide, and so does
> not apply.
>
> It's up to Paul if he wants to follow this guide.
>
> Mat
>
> Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
> Engineering Fellow
> BAE Systems - Network Systems (NS)
> Office: +1 973.633.6344
> Cell: +1 973.229.9520
> email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Thaler [mailto:pthaler@broadcom.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:57 PM
> To: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA); STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: RE: [802SEC] Motion to amend Rome to Vancouver
>
> Mat,
>
> I don't understand your point. Have you read RROR on this motion? I
> realize it is a new one to most people but I have provided the chapter
> and section reference in previous emails. The motion to reconsider is
> tied to session boundaries. The motion to amend something previously
> adopted is valid regardless of when the original adoption occurred.
>
> From RROR Chapter IX Section 35. RESCIND; AMEND SOMETHING PREVIOUSLY
> ADOPTED:
> "Can be applied to anything (e.g., bylaw, rule, policy, decision, or
> choice) which has continuing force and effect and which was made or
> created at any time or times as the result of the adoption of one or
> more main motions. Can also be applied to any precedent created as a
> result of a ruling of the chair or an appeal that has been taken from
a
> ruling of the chair. (However, see below for actions that cannot be
> rescinded or amended.) All of the subsidiary motions can be applied to
> the motions to Rescind and to Amend Something Previously Adopted."
>
> The following are the cases where the motion cannot be used:
> "ACTIONS THAT CANNOT BE RESCINDED OR AMENDED. The motions to Rescind
> and to Amend Something Previously Adopted are not in order under the
> following circumstances:
> a) When it has previously been moved to reconsider the vote
> on the main motion, and the question can be reached by calling up the
> motion to Reconsider (37).
> b) When something has been done, as a result of the vote on
> the main motion, that is impossible to undo. (The unexecuted part of
an
> order, however, can be rescinded or amended.)
> [page 298] c) When a resignation has been acted upon, or a
> person has been elected to or expelled from membership or office, and
> the person was present or has been officially notified of the action.
> (The only way to reverse an expulsion is to follow whatever procedure
is
> prescribed by the bylaws for admission or reinstatement. For the case
of
> an election, see pp. 642-43 regarding removal of a person from
office.)"
>
> So, if we already had committed to a contract b) might apply but I
think
> we are still okay for that one. A) can't apply since there has been no
> previous motion to reconsider and c) doesn't apply.
> It is clear to me that this motion is appropriate under RROR. I leave
it
> to Paul to declare whether the motion is in order for this body.
>
> Regards,
> Pat
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
> [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Sherman, Matthew
J.
> (US SSA)
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:40 PM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Motion to amend Rome to Vancouver
>
> I would argue that we are no longer in session, and a motion to amend
is
> not in order.
>
> That said, I still think we can change our minds and have a vote on
the
> reflector to rescind our prior decision and make a different one.
After
> all, Roberts is only a guide!)
>
> However, I have not heard enough sentiment expressed by the EC that
> people would change their minds. I don't believe we will get any
other
> options at this late date. It is Rome or Vancouver. Pick your
poison.
>
> Mat
>
> Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
> Engineering Fellow
> BAE Systems - Network Systems (NS)
> Office: +1 973.633.6344
> Cell: +1 973.229.9520
> email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
> [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Carl R. Stevenson
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:59 PM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Motion to amend Rome to Vancouver
>
> Pat,
>
> I don't think that you can ammend a motion that already passed.
>
> You can make a motion to recind the previous action and adopt a
> different
> decision, however, and be procedurally correct.
>
> Again, while I'm not Paul, according to my understanding of our rules,
> our
> session ended at 6:00 pm EST on Friday with the close of the EC
meeting,
> so
> it is no longer a motion to reconsider that would require the motion
be
> made
> by one on the prevailing side.
>
> Carl
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Pat Thaler
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:20 PM
>> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: [802SEC] Motion to amend Rome to Vancouver
>>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>> The list server seems to not like something about my post of
>> the motion
>> to amend our decision on plenary location for March 2009. So
>> here it is
>> without the rationale. I hope that will get rid of whatever
>> word in the
>> message is causing a problem.
>>
>> If Paul rules that it is in order, I would like to make a motion to
>> amend the previously adopted motion to replace "Rome" with
>> "Vancouver".
>>
>> Regards,
>> Pat
>>
>> ----------
>> This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email
>> reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.
>>
>
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