Re: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
I agree with Arnie ... .20 (or any other WG/TAG in 802) should not be given
"the short straw" in such matters.
Arnie's point about fairness and perceptions is "spot on."
Carl
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of
> greenspana@bellsouth.net
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:42 PM
> To: Geoff Thompson; Shellhammer, Steve
> Cc: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; amgrrg@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
>
> All:
>
> I was going to wait and discuss this matter with Paul at the
> Sandards Board meeting. However since we are all involved in
> exchanging views; It would have been more appropriate if
> 802.20 were made aware of this woorkshop and even been
> invited to participate. The false impression that 802.20 is
> either nonexistant or redundundant results in part from their
> not being included in forums such as this one. The other
> reason is that some subtely lead audiences to that
> conclusion. Aside from all of the other points that have been
> raised, I would like the lack of an invitation to 802.20 to
> participate be revisited and enquire as to why the IEEE and
> or the chair did not think to include our working group.
>
> Arnie Greenspan
> Chair 802.20
>
> -------------- Original message from "Geoff Thompson"
> <gthompso@NORTEL.COM>: --------------
>
>
> > Steve-
> >
> > Just thought it would be a good idea and (at a minimum) appropriate
> > courtesy to notify the EC in advance if the chair and a
> significant chunk
> > of the EC is going to appear together at an outside event
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > At 10:36 AM 9/24/2007 , Shellhammer, Steve wrote:
> > >Geoff,
> > >
> > > Since I was one (possible the only) person who sent an email
> > > regarding the rules I would like to clarify. In no way do
> I want to
> > > imply that we should only follow the rules. My point is
> that if the EC
> > > has some expectation on members of 802 then the EC should
> make those
> > > expectations know. You were expressing your concern that
> some members of
> > > 802 were acting in a questionable way. To me if there is
> some behavior
> > > that is expected then my point is just that everyone
> knows what that
> > > behavior is. I think Bob's email makes sense and sets an
> expectation
> > > that anyone making a presentation on an 802 standard
> should make it cleat
> > > in their presentation that all the opinions are his/hers
> unless the
> > > presentation has been approved by the EC. We might want to even
> > > communicate this expectation to the 802 membership so
> they know what is
> > > expected of them.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Steve
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
> > >[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Geoff
> Thompson
> > >Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 6:32 AM
> > >To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> > >Subject: Re: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for
> September 20, 2007
> > >
> > >Bob-
> > >
> > >Thanks for your input. I confess that I am a little put
> off by "the no
> > >rules are being broken" responses. As the high level management
> > >committee,
> > >we are supposed to do a lot more than "just follow the
> rules". We are
> > >supposed to have the judgement and discretion and do the
> right thing in
> > >area not adequately covered by the rules.
> > >
> > >I admit and realize that I was leaning a bit heavily on the "too
> > >concerned"
> > >side. Having said that, it is clear to me that in the
> spectrum that runs
> > >
> > >from an ex-member of the EC all the way to the entire EC
> giving a panel
> > >at
> > >a 3rd party for-profit conference there is a point beyond
> which our
> > >participation is a legitimate issue of business of the 802 EC. The
> > >appearance of something being an EC or quasi-EC function
> is no different
> > >
> > >from the audience side than a sanctioned one.
> > >
> > >I continue to be concerned that this event was not even
> announced, much
> > >less discussed on the EC reflector at all by the involved
> parties. I
> > >really
> > >hate learning about this stuff via a 3rd party.
> > >
> > >Best regards,
> > >
> > >Geoff
> > >
> > >
> > >At 01:44 PM 9/21/2007 , Shellhammer, Steve wrote:
> > > >Bob,
> > > >
> > > > I think that makes sense and is very helpful. I agree that
> > > >having such a disclaimer in a presentation is a good idea.
> > > >
> > > >Regards,
> > > >Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Grow, Bob [mailto:bob.grow@intel.com]
> > > >Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:43 PM
> > > >To: Shellhammer, Steve; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> > > >Subject: RE: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for
> September 20, 2007
> > > >
> > > >All:
> > > >
> > > >I'll come down somewhere in the middle. I think Geoff is
> being a bit
> > > >too concerned at this point, but I also think some have
> expressed
> > > >opinions that are too loose on making things very clear
> what the status
> > > >of the material presented is. If you read the
> boilerplate in the front
> > > >of our standards, it contains the following:
> > > >
> > > >"At lectures, symposia, seminars, or educational
> courses, an individual
> > > >presenting information on
> > > >IEEE standards shall make it clear that his or her views
> should be
> > > >considered the personal views of that individual
> > > >rather than the formal position, explanation, or
> interpretation of the
> > > >IEEE."
> > > >
> > > >So, especially being an 802 officer, have made it a
> practice to include
> > > >a disclaimer in my presentation (including the above). I
> don't think
> > >it
> > > >is enough to simply ignore that many will think someone
> holding an
> > > >impressive title may be delivering an official position.
> It is much
> > > >cleaner to make it very explicit that one is speaking
> personally.
> > > >
> > > >I expect that the seminar participants could and should clearly
> > >indicate
> > > >that they are providing personal opinions; and if they
> do that, it
> > > >satisfies all my concerns.
> > > >
> > > >--Bob
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
> > > >[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of
> Shellhammer, Steve
> > > >Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:14 PM
> > > >To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> > > >Subject: Re: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for
> September 20, 2007
> > > >
> > > >Geoff,
> > > >
> > > > What is the rule on this? Is there a rule? I know we have
> > >some
> > > >rules regarding 802.18 representing 802 to regulatory
> organizations.
> > > >Are there other rules regarding giving presentations at
> workshops or
> > > >other presentations? I know Roger was recently giving a
> presentation
> > >on
> > > >802.16 in San Diego (where I live) at a local IEEE
> meeting. Was he
> > > >supposed to clear such a presentation with the EC?
> > > >
> > > > I think if the EC has some expectations on such presentations
> > >it
> > > >is obligated to document those expectations, otherwise
> 802 members will
> > > >not know what those expectations are, and would be left
> guessing.
> > > >
> > > >Regards,
> > > >Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
> > > >[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of
> Geoff Thompson
> > > >Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:01 AM
> > > >To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> > > >Subject: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September
> 20, 2007
> > > >
> > > >Colleagues-
> > > >
> > > >This announcement troubles me. Although it does not say
> that it is
> > >being
> > > >
> > > >presented "in cooperation with IEEE 802" there is
> certainly a strong
> > > >impression given (especially since it is being moderated
> by our chair)
> > > >that
> > > >this event is sanctioned by 802. I don't recall ever
> having discussed
> > > >this
> > > >one way or the other in the EC. Even without any
> prejudice about how a
> > > >discussion in the EC might turn out, I am uneasy about
> this. I would be
> > > >interested in your thoughts.
> > > >
> > > >Geoff
> > > >
> > > > >To:
> > > > >Subject: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
> > > > >Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 07:04:48 -0700
> > > > >X-Delivery: Level 3
> > > > >Reply-To: ieee-sa-exec@ieeestandards.org
> > > > >X-Complaints-To: abuse@uptilt.com
> > > > >From: "IEEE Standards Association"
> > > > >
> > > > >NEW EDUCATIONAL WORKSHOP FOCUSING ON IEEE 802 WIRELESS
> STANDARDS
> > > > >
> > > > >The IEEE Educational Activities Board in cooperation
> with the IEEE
> > > > >Standards Association is presenting a first of its
> kind standards
> > > > >education workshop. Through this workshop, attendees
> can learn about
> > > >the
> > > > >important role IEEE 802 Wireless Standards play in
> manufacturing and
> > > > >production processes. In association with IEEE
> GLOBECOM, the workshop
> > > >is
> > > > >scheduled to take place 30 November to 1 December 2007
> in Washington,
> > > >DC.
> > > > >
> > > > >The workshop will feature a comprehensive panel discussion on
> > >standards
> > > >
> > > > >history and the standards development process
> featuring the following
> > > > >speakers:
> > > > >
> > > > >Moderator:
> > > > >Paul Nikolich, chairman, IEEE 802 LAN/MAN standards executive
> > > >committee,
> > > > >
> > > > >Panelists:
> > > > >John R. Barr, director, standards realization, Motorola
> > > > >Roger B. Marks senior vice president, NextWave Broadband Inc.
> > > > >Fanny Mlinarsky, president at octoScope
> > > > >Albert Petrick, vice chairman, IEEE 802.11
> > > > >Donald E. Purcell, chairman, Center for Global
> Standards Analysis
> > > > >
> > > > >Topics that will be covered in the lectures include:
> wireless LAN
> > > > >Standards for Wi-Fi Solutions, the development of WPAN
> ecosystem
> > > > >standards, the basis of WiMAX mobile broadband networks, and
> > > >performance
> > > > >requirements and verification of the IEEE 802 wireless
> technologies.
> > > > >
> > > > >IEEE Members save $150 (USD) on registration and IEEE GLOBECOM
> > > >attendees
> > > > >save an additional $50 (USD). IEEE Student Members are
> encouraged to
> > > > >attend and are offered a significantly reduced
> registration fee where
> > > >they
> > > > >save $400 (USD).
> > > > >
> > > > >To register for the workshop visit
> > > >
> > >
> >https://icm3.ieee.org/eventmanager/onlineregistration.asp?eve
ntcode=ndx
> > > >.
> > > > >For more information and to review the preliminary
> program visit
> > > > >www.ieee.org/web/education/802_Workshop/index.xml
> > > > >
> > > > >Through the Standards Information Network, a
> specialized program that
> > > > >publishes handbooks, guides and tutorials on IEEE
> standards, we offer
> > >a
> > > >
> > > > >series of publications covering the IEEE 802 Wireless Network
> > >standards
> > > >
> > > > >upon which the workshop is based. To learn more visit
> > > >
> >http://standards.ieee.org/standardspress/featured_products.html
> > > > >
> > > > >Think Standards! Think IEEE!
> > > > >IEEE Standards Association
> > > > >445 Hoes Lane
> > > > >Piscataway, NJ 08854
> > > > >
> > > > >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> unsubscribe-100571@uptilt.com with
> > > >the
> > > > >address: thompson@ieee.org in the subject line.
> > > >
> > > >----------
> > > >This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee
> email reflector.
> > > >This list is maintained by Listserv.
> > > >
> > > >----------
> > > >This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee
> email reflector.
> > > >This list is maintained by Listserv.
> > > >
> > > >----------
> > > >This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee
> email reflector.
> > >This
> > > >list is maintained by Listserv.
> > >
> > >----------
> > >This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email
> reflector.
> > >This list is maintained by Listserv.
> > >
> > >----------
> > >This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email
> reflector. This
> > >list is maintained by Listserv.
> >
> > ----------
> > This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email
> reflector. This list
> > is maintained by Listserv.
>
> ----------
> This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email
> reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.
>
----------
This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.