Re: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
Geoff,
Since I was one (possible the only) person who sent an email
regarding the rules I would like to clarify. In no way do I want to
imply that we should only follow the rules. My point is that if the EC
has some expectation on members of 802 then the EC should make those
expectations know. You were expressing your concern that some members
of 802 were acting in a questionable way. To me if there is some
behavior that is expected then my point is just that everyone knows what
that behavior is. I think Bob's email makes sense and sets an
expectation that anyone making a presentation on an 802 standard should
make it cleat in their presentation that all the opinions are his/hers
unless the presentation has been approved by the EC. We might want to
even communicate this expectation to the 802 membership so they know
what is expected of them.
Regards,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 6:32 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
Bob-
Thanks for your input. I confess that I am a little put off by "the no
rules are being broken" responses. As the high level management
committee,
we are supposed to do a lot more than "just follow the rules". We are
supposed to have the judgement and discretion and do the right thing in
area not adequately covered by the rules.
I admit and realize that I was leaning a bit heavily on the "too
concerned"
side. Having said that, it is clear to me that in the spectrum that runs
from an ex-member of the EC all the way to the entire EC giving a panel
at
a 3rd party for-profit conference there is a point beyond which our
participation is a legitimate issue of business of the 802 EC. The
appearance of something being an EC or quasi-EC function is no different
from the audience side than a sanctioned one.
I continue to be concerned that this event was not even announced, much
less discussed on the EC reflector at all by the involved parties. I
really
hate learning about this stuff via a 3rd party.
Best regards,
Geoff
At 01:44 PM 9/21/2007 , Shellhammer, Steve wrote:
>Bob,
>
> I think that makes sense and is very helpful. I agree that
>having such a disclaimer in a presentation is a good idea.
>
>Regards,
>Steve
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Grow, Bob [mailto:bob.grow@intel.com]
>Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:43 PM
>To: Shellhammer, Steve; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>Subject: RE: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
>
>All:
>
>I'll come down somewhere in the middle. I think Geoff is being a bit
>too concerned at this point, but I also think some have expressed
>opinions that are too loose on making things very clear what the status
>of the material presented is. If you read the boilerplate in the front
>of our standards, it contains the following:
>
>"At lectures, symposia, seminars, or educational courses, an individual
>presenting information on
>IEEE standards shall make it clear that his or her views should be
>considered the personal views of that individual
>rather than the formal position, explanation, or interpretation of the
>IEEE."
>
>So, especially being an 802 officer, have made it a practice to include
>a disclaimer in my presentation (including the above). I don't think
it
>is enough to simply ignore that many will think someone holding an
>impressive title may be delivering an official position. It is much
>cleaner to make it very explicit that one is speaking personally.
>
>I expect that the seminar participants could and should clearly
indicate
>that they are providing personal opinions; and if they do that, it
>satisfies all my concerns.
>
>--Bob
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
>[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Shellhammer, Steve
>Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:14 PM
>To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>Subject: Re: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
>
>Geoff,
>
> What is the rule on this? Is there a rule? I know we have
some
>rules regarding 802.18 representing 802 to regulatory organizations.
>Are there other rules regarding giving presentations at workshops or
>other presentations? I know Roger was recently giving a presentation
on
>802.16 in San Diego (where I live) at a local IEEE meeting. Was he
>supposed to clear such a presentation with the EC?
>
> I think if the EC has some expectations on such presentations
it
>is obligated to document those expectations, otherwise 802 members will
>not know what those expectations are, and would be left guessing.
>
>Regards,
>Steve
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
>[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson
>Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:01 AM
>To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>Subject: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
>
>Colleagues-
>
>This announcement troubles me. Although it does not say that it is
being
>
>presented "in cooperation with IEEE 802" there is certainly a strong
>impression given (especially since it is being moderated by our chair)
>that
>this event is sanctioned by 802. I don't recall ever having discussed
>this
>one way or the other in the EC. Even without any prejudice about how a
>discussion in the EC might turn out, I am uneasy about this. I would be
>interested in your thoughts.
>
>Geoff
>
> >To: <thompson@ieee.org>
> >Subject: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
> >Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 07:04:48 -0700
> >X-Delivery: Level 3
> >Reply-To: ieee-sa-exec@ieeestandards.org
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