Re: [802SEC] Final venue choices for our March 8-13, 2009 Plenary Session for your review
Good rant :>) Though I think Steve became the inadvertent lightning rod but
the points Buzz makes are spot on and should remind all of us of what we
should be thinking about as we consider this venue choice. Paritcularly-
"and frankly I'm a bit tired of offering nNA venues that
we have warned time and again WILL BE MORE EXPENSIVE than their NA
alternatives only to hear a chorus of complaints that they are too
expensive. If you really want to do nNA plenaries, you have to be
willing to pay the going rate. If we really can't afford to do these,
then let's stop kidding ourselves that we want to do them. With the
diminishing dollar the going rate get worse every year and we get
further away, not closer. Just hoping to get NA deals at nNA venues is
a waste of time. It's time to put our money where our mouth is, or
change our story."
As I sit here in Beijing, at a significantly more expensive meeting than I
normally run in the US, I am living the truth of Buzz's comment. I think we
should be discussing with our Working Groups not only the venue choice here
but the overall issue of the reality of nNA meetings. They WILL be 2 to 3
times more expensive. It is not an issue that we did not find the right
property. Finding a sponsor to foot the bill is neither realistic nor
practical for meetings of this size and diversity. There are no sugar
daddies out there. Getting these meetings planned and organized is a huge
amount of work. I, like Buzz, am not looking for make work if in the end we
decide we do not want to do it.
I can argue both sides of the fence as to whether we should have nNA
meetings or not. That is not my issue at the moment. What I do want is
very clear direction that we are committed do nNA meetings (I am not sure
that we really are), we understand that they will be 2 to 3 times more
expensive, and that we agree that is ok. We should assume we will get the
best deal possible in this more expensive setting but it will be more
expensive. That is the reality.
As part of this venue choice discussion, let's get another reading from our
Working Groups, particularly from our nNA members, whether geographic
diversity or meeting budget is more important and decide this in
November. If we do opt for Vancouver (again ok if that is the consensus
position) that is a mandate, in my book, that budget is more important than
geography, but I would like to see an explicit reading on that.
My 2 cents (cheap).
Bob
PS I just saw Roger's comments before hitting send. If you have a
potential sponsor please pursue and discover the depth of their ability to
contribute financially. Also are they near any facilities that are large
enough and have that particular week available? Is this even a real
possibility or a distraction? In terms of timeliness of deciding on venue
this will be only 16 months out as of November and we probably won't be
under contract for at least 2-3 month after that. I consider that on the
hairy edge for finding a place for a meeting the size of ours with the
amount of break-outs we demand with no schedule flexibility (this date has
been posted for a while and a lot of other groups plan around the IEEE
meeting dates. To change it now is not an option).
At 10:23 PM 9/9/2007 -0700, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
>
>
>Steve, We offered 3 choices for non-North American venues for the March
>8-13, 2009 timeslot.
>
>
>
>Geneva @ITU (#1 preference) unfortunately declined to complete a deal
>with us for lack of enough meeting space during that time window. We
>also need ITU sponsorship for that to work. We have been told that they
>would gladly consider hosting us for our March 2011 session.
>
>
>
>Park Marriott Rome (#2 preference) has made us a fair offer based on
>their current pricing and has the rooms and meeting space available, but
>it IS an expensive alternative.
>
>
>
>The Hilton London Metropole also made an expensive offer but received
>such a low vote total on the preference poll that we did not pursue that
>option further.
>
>
>
>We already have contracted deals for the other slots for 2009 and 2010,
>so March 2011 is our first next choice for a nNA venue, and we will hope
>to offer Geneva for that slot as soon as we have an official invitation
>through the ITU.
>
>
>
>Meanwhile may I remind you that Bob Heile is primarily responsible for
>our nNA choices, and frankly I'm a bit tired of offering nNA venues that
>we have warned time and again WILL BE MORE EXPENSIVE than their NA
>alternatives only to hear a chorus of complaints that they are too
>expensive. If you really want to do nNA plenaries, you have to be
>willing to pay the going rate. If we really can't afford to do these,
>then let's stop kidding ourselves that we want to do them. With the
>diminishing dollar the going rate get worse every year and we get
>further away, not closer. Just hoping to get NA deals at nNA venues is
>a waste of time. It's time to put our money where our mouth is, or
>change our story.
>
>
>
>I don't mean to dump on you, Steve, but I've got a very large investment
>of my own personal time in chasing this nNA fantasy with little more
>than a passel of complaints to show for my efforts. If you don't like
>the choices you are getting, please talk to Bob Heile. And if anyone
>thinks they can find better choices for IEEE-802 Plenaries, they are all
>too welcome to step-up and show us.
>
>
>
>{end of Rant}
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanx, Buzz
>
>Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>
>Boeing IT
>
>PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>
>Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>
>Ph: (425) 373-8960 Fx: (425) 865-7960
>
>Cell: (425) 417-1022
>
>everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shellhammer, Steve [mailto:sshellha@QUALCOMM.COM]
>Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 11:07 AM
>To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>Subject: Re: [802SEC] Final venue choices for our March 8-13, 2009
>Plenary Session for your review
>
>
>
>Buzz,
>
>
>
> Carl brings up an interesting point. Is this meeting intended
>
>to be the non-North America plenary? If we end up picking Vancouver for
>
>March do we schedule a non-North America plenary in July 2009?
>
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
>
>[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Carl R. Stevenson
>
>Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 12:55 PM
>
>To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>
>Subject: Re: [802SEC] Final venue choices for our March 8-13, 2009
>
>Plenary Session for your review
>
>
>
>Buzz,
>
>
>
>Speaking for myself, I vote for the Rome location.
>
>
>
>We've done Vancouver 2 or 3 times and while it's easier via-wise for
>
>some of
>
>our attendees than the US, it's still a North American venue and I think
>
>that the EC should reject it in favor of the Rome location. (I am
>
>disappointed that several Asian venues apparently didn't work out.)
>
>
>
>As a member of the EC and the SA Board of Governors, I don't believe
>
>that
>
>Vancouver truly meets our stated policy goals of "walking the walk" as
>
>an
>
>international SDO by holding 802 plenaries in non-North American venues.
>
>Other groups in the SA do ... Why is it so difficult for us?
>
>
>
>Having the "choice" between an (we know they are more expensive) EU (or
>
>Asian) venue vs. Vancouver doesn't seem like a fair question when taken
>
>in
>
>the context of our policy goal. It puts us in the position of "choose
>
>the
>
>more expensive one and meet the goal or choose the cheaper one and
>
>ignore/abandon the goal."
>
>
>
>I am finding this situation increasingly unacceptable. If you have any
>
>immediate feedback, please e-mail me directly.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>
>
>
>Carl
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>
> > [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of
>
> > Rigsbee, Everett O
>
> > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 12:03 PM
>
> > To: stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>
> > Cc: 802info@IEEE.ORG; dawns@facetoface-events.com
>
> > Subject: [802SEC] Final venue choices for our March 8-13,
>
> > 2009 Plenary Session for your review
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Colleagues, Please see the attached summary of our final venue
>
> > choices for March 2009. Please share the information with
>
> > your respective Working Groups during your interim sessions
>
> > and give us your and/or your WG response on preferences. We
>
> > need to close on this choice very shortly now or we will lose
>
> > the options. We still have an option for Geneva for March
>
> > 2011 that we can pursue.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thanx again for your cooperation and support. :-)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thanx, Buzz
>
> > Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>
> > Boeing IT
>
> > PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>
> > Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>
> > Ph: (425) 373-8960 Fx: (425) 865-7960
>
> > Cell: (425) 417-1022
>
> > everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ----------
>
> > This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email
>
> > reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.
>
> >
>
>
>
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Bob Heile, Ph.D
Chairman, ZigBee Alliance
Chair, IEEE 802.15 Working Group on Wireless Personal Area Networks
11 Louis Road
Attleboro, MA 02703 USA
Mobile: +1-781-929-4832
email: bheile@ieee.org
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