Re: [802SEC] FW: Software and Treasury concerns
Dear Harry,
I'm embarassed to say I am confused as to how to respond to your allegations
of "misrepresentation and half truths". Although I've read and re-read your
email many times, I can't seem to find any references to the
"misrepresentation and half truths" you alluded to in your message.
In any event, I sense that you are less than happy with my attempt to ensure
that everyone get the support they need to be as productive as possible at
this session. I apologize for any confusion I may have created, and assure
you that my motivation was in the best interest of the organization.
I look forward to seeing you in Dallas.
Best regards,
Rick Alfvin
Vice Chair IEEE 802.15
+1 585.781.0952
--
On 11/5/06, Stuart J. Kerry <stuart@ok-brit.com> wrote:
>
> +++ FORWARDED ON BEHALF OF HARRY WORSTELL PER HIS REQUEST +++
>
> _____
>
> From: Worstell,Harry R (Harry)
> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 3:01 PM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> Cc: paul.nikolich@ATT.NET; k.kenney@ieee.org;
> wpiencia@thunderdome.ieee.org;
> Bob Labelle
> Subject: Software and Treasury concerns
>
>
> Dear IEEE 802 Executive Committee,
>
> I am writing to you as an IEEE 802.11 voting member to object to the
> misrepresentation and half truths in the emails sent by Dr Heile and Rick
> Alfvin, copied below, in regards to the attendance collection at the
> November 2006 Plenary session. Mr. Alfvin has stated in his email "The
> IEEE
> system originally tested for .11 and tested by other wireless groups in
> Melbourne. Although this system is currently available at no charge, it
> lacks security, authentication and an administrative interface to modify
> the
> database during the session to make corrections. The system also lacks a
> feedback mechanism allowing an attendee to monitor his accrued percentage
> of
> attendance. The IEEE openly acknowledges the shortcomings of the
> interface,
> and has stated that this is a throwaway stop gap solution."
>
> The IEEE IT software was and is intended to be a stop-gap solution for the
> IEEE 802.11 Working Group as they were, due to the size of the group,
> unable
> to meet the requirements of the IEEE 802 Policies and Procedures without
> an
> automated attendance solution. This system was NOT tested and never
> intended
> to be tested as a solution to the problems with attendance collection for
> other 802 groups. The software needs were never offered for bid to any
> other
> venders per IEEE policies by the IEEE EC and yet in his email he states
> "*Note: Unless this solution is adopted by 802, it may not be available in
>
> the future......so, if you haven't used it before, this may be your last
> chance to try it and form your own opinion of its value to 802.*. No other
> vendors have had a chance to offer any other options and no competitive
> bidding has been done. To my understanding, every group except for IEEE
> 802.16 and 20 has used the stated commercial software.
>
> I will reemphesize that the IEEE IT software was and is intended to be a
> stop-gap solution for the IEEE 802.11 Working Group as they were, due to
> the
> size of the group, unable to meet the requirements of the IEEE 802
> Policies
> and Procedures without an automated attendance solution.
>
> The IEEE-SA Electronic Services Group provided this software solution
> until
> the IEEE 802 EC could come to agreement and provide a COMPLETE solution
> for
> the problem, which they have not done yet. The IEEE IT group has also been
> working on a complete solution that they will offer the IEEE 802 group for
>
> free or at a minimum expenditure as they have stated. They have also
> provided stop-gap back-end processing that I believe was not used by any
> other group other than IEEE 802.11. It also is tied to the registration
> using the Member ID numbers of the IEEE 802 group. It was never meant to
> be
> secure or final a solution and has been a real asset to the IEEE 802.11
> Working Group in our situation and I thank them for their great work. It
> is
> certainly as secure than the paper method we have used for the last 10
> years
> and it is free!
>
> We have found that the IEEE 802.11 member ID numbers are changing on a
> regular basis and the organizers registration software is not catching
> these
> changes which are causing problems with post processing of attendance and
> letter ballots. We have had 3 to 10 members with different numbers at
> every
> session. These numbers should never change for any individual.
>
> Dr. Hiele has stated in an email copied below "My expectation that there
> will be no 802 groups outside of 11,15,18, 19, 20, 21 and 22 who will
> express any interest in using any of the two electronic systems and that
> we
> will have to handle this our of the wireless treasury if we want to take
> advantage of the more user friendly Azgaard system." First of all the
> treasury is NOT the wireless treasury. It is the Joint Treasury of IEEE
> 802.11 and IEEE 802.15.
>
> Dr. Heile has also stated in the email below that "Please also signify
> whether you will support the expenditure of funds from the wireless
> treasury
> for the Azgaard system ( my guess is it would cost between $600-800 if it
> were used by 15, 20, 21 and 22). " Mr. Alfvin states that "The Azgard
> system, which is a commercial application, is being offered for use by
> IEEE
> 802 during the Dallas session for a minimum fee of $500 or $2/user,
> whichever is greater." If the wireless groups all us this software, the
> expenditures could far exceed the estimates from Dr. Hiele.
>
> As this is an 802.11/15 joint treasury per IEEE 802 Policies and
> Procedures,
> the members of each group must vote on any expenditure of this kind. The
> Chair of the IEEE 802.11 Working Group has already stated in an email
> copied
> below that " Well being forced to be the bad guy here, I am informing you
> all the 802.11 WG is fully committed to the IEEE attendance approach as
> previously stated, and to that end will be using it in its interim form
> for
> the Dallas session. This decision is until either mandated by the 802 EC
> or
> IEEE and therefore that is the choice that my WG is using for attendance
> collection." He also stated that "Finally, under the joint treasury of
> 802.11 and 802.15 I vote no for the provision of funds for this 802 EC
> sponsored November Plenary session in Dallas. Later events are not covered
> under my negative vote for this session. ", which means that the IEEE
> 802.11
> group does not support any expenditure of monies out of the Joint IEEE
> 802.11/15 treasury. Also, this being a Plenary session, it is up to the
> IEEE
> 802 EC to fund such expenditures, not the working groups or TAGs.
>
> Finally, I, as an IEEE 802.11 voting member in good standing, object to
> any
> further back-door politics and misinformation to be dispersed by any
> member
> of the Executive Committee and that the 802 Executive Committee follow
> their
> IEEE 802 Polices and Procedures and the IEEE policies now and in the
> future.
>
> Regards,
>
> Harry Worstell
>
> Attachment:
>
> _____
>
> From: Bob Heile [mailto:bheile@ieee.org]
> Sent: Sun 10/29/2006 9:04 PM
> To: stuart.kerry@nxp.com; bheile@ieee.org; mjlynch@nortel.com;
> shellhammer@ieee.org; a.greenspan@ieee.org; greenspana@bellsouth.net;
> vivek.g.gupta@INTEL.COM; wk3c@wk3c.com
> Cc: Worstell,Harry R (Harry); john.barr@motorola.com; apetrick@widefi.com;
> alfvin@ieee.org
> Subject: Fwd: [802SEC] Attendance Collection in Dallas
>
>
>
> Gentlemen
>
> Those of you on the EC reflector have already seen Rick's email. My
> expectation that there will be no 802 groups outside of 11,15,18, 19, 20,
> 21
> and 22 who will express any interest in using any of the two electronic
> systems and that we will have to handle this our of the wireless treasury
> if
> we want to take advantage of the more user friendly Azgaard system.
>
> Per Rick' request please let this group know ASAP if you want to use one
> or
> the other or none. Please also signify whether you will support the
> expenditure of funds from the wireless treasury for the Azgaard system (
> my
> guess is it would cost between $600-800 if it were used by 15, 20, 21 and
> 22). A majority of us is needed to support this if we are to do it. That
> does not mean you have to use it. 15 would very much like to use the
> Azgaard system since it is a much more robust system, automatically deals
> with deadbeats and requires substanstially less post processing.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:37:17 -0400
> Reply-To: Rick Alfvin <alfvin@IEEE.ORG >
> From: Rick Alfvin <alfvin@IEEE.ORG>
> Subject: [802SEC] Attendance Collection in Dallas
>
>
> The Dallas IEEE 802 plenary meeting is quickly approaching and we need to
> determine what our attendance collection options are for this session. As
> vice-chair of 802.15, I am responsible for 802.15 attendance collection.
> As
> far as I am aware, there are three options available to all working
> groups.
>
> 1. Manual methods. Labor intensive and viable for some of the smaller
> groups. Generally not a desired or preferred approach.
>
> 2. The IEEE system originally tested for .11 and tested by other wireless
> groups in Melbourne. Although this system is currently available at no
> charge, it lacks security, authentication and an administrative interface
> to
> modify the database during the session to make corrections. The system
> also
> lacks a feedback mechanism allowing an attendee to monitor his accrued
> percentage of attendance. The IEEE openly acknowledges the shortcomings of
> the interface, and has stated that this is a throwaway stop gap solution.
>
> 3. The Azgaard system originally tested by .15 and tested by other
> wireless
> groups in San Diego. This system provides authentication tied to the
> registration database (so only paid attendees can log attendance credit),
> security in the form of unique user/password restricted access, immediate
> user feedback showing the percentage of accrued session attendance credit
> and an administrative interface which allows an admin to modify records
> during the event (e.g. if an attendee forgot to sign in to a meeting and
> needed to have his attendance record corrected.) *Note: Unless this
> solution
> is adopted by 802, it may not be available in the future......so, if you
> haven't used it before, this may be your last chance to try it and form
> your
> own opinion of its value to 802.*
>
> If you wish to use the IEEE system, I recommend you contact Walter
> Pienciak
> *wpiencia@thunderdome.ieee.org* <wpiencia@thunderdome.ieee.org >.
>
> If you wish to use the Azgaard system (my preference), please reply to
> this
> email. The Azgard system, which is a commercial application, is being
> offered for use by IEEE 802 during the Dallas session for a minimum fee of
>
> $500 or $2/user, whichever is greater. This fee will have to be approved
> by
> either the 802 Wireless Groups Executive Committee or the IEEE SEC. I will
> pass along your choice to use this approach to both the 802SEC and
> 802Wireless SEC.
>
> --
> Rick Alfvin
> Vice Chair IEEE 802.15
> +1 585.781.0952
>
> ----------
> This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This
> list is maintained by Listserv.
>
>
>
> Bob Heile, Ph.D
> Chairman, ZigBee Alliance
> Chair, IEEE 802.15 Working Group on Wireless Personal Area Networks
> 11 Louis Road
> Attleboro, MA 02703 USA
> Mobile: +1-781-929-4832
> email: bheile@ieee.org
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Stuart Kerry [mailto:stuart.kerry@nxp.com]
> Sent: Sun 10/29/2006 11:08 PM
> To: alfvin@ieee.org
> Cc: apetrick@widefi.com; a.greenspan@ieee.org; bheile@ieee.org;
> greenspana@bellsouth.net; Worstell,Harry R (Harry); john.barr@motorola.com
> ;
> mjlynch@nortel.com; shellhammer@ieee.org; stuart.kerry@nxp.com;
> vivek.g.gupta@INTEL.COM; wk3c@wk3c.com; b.labelle@ieee.org;
> p.nikolich@ieee.org
> Subject: Re: Fwd: [802SEC] Attendance Collection in Dallas
>
>
>
> Rick,
>
> Well being forced to be the bad guy here, I am informing you all the
> 802.11
> WG is fully committed to the IEEE attendance approach as previously
> stated,
> and to that end will be using it in its interim form for the Dallas
> session.
> This decision is until either mandated by the 802 EC or IEEE and therefore
>
> that is the choice that my WG is using for attendance collection.
>
> Finally, under the joint treasury of 802.11 and 802.15 I vote no for the
> provision of funds for this 802 EC sponsored November Plenary session in
> Dallas. Later events are not covered under my negative vote for this
> session.
>
> / Stuart
>
> _______________________________
>
> Stuart J. Kerry
> Chair, IEEE 802.11 WLANs WG
>
> NXP Semiconductors,
> 1109 McKay Drive, M/S 48A SJ,
> San Jose, CA 95131-1706,
> United States of America.
>
> +1 (408) 474-7356 - Phone
> +1 (408) 474-5343 - Fax
> +1 (408) 348-3171 - Cell
> eMail: stuart.kerry@nxp.com
> _______________________________
>
>
> ----------
> This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This
> list is maintained by Listserv.
>
----------
This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.