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G'day Geoff Oooops, missed that one Steve, could you live with this version? Please say yes! If not, could I chat with you later today in Melbourne? Other EC members, could you please vote ASAP? Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Thompson [mailto:gthompso@nortel.com] Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 11:43 AM To: Andrew Myles (amyles) Cc: wk3c@wk3c.com; Geoff Thompson; STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: RE: [802SEC] RE: [802SEC] +++EC Email ballot (closes no later than 25SEP2006)+++ Motion to approve the attached EC SC6 recommendation Andrew- Thanks for the fast turn-around. Comments as I look through it. Slide 4: Good change Approved Slide 7 Not wild about it still, but I can live with it Slide 9 Please complete the change in last bullet (i.e. from "status" to "recognition") Slide 11: Good change Approved So you are only one word away from my APPROVE vote. Thanks, Geoff At 06:04 PM 9/20/2006 , Andrew Myles \(amyles\) wrote: >G'day Carl, > >I responded to Geoff's suggestions with a new version (attached). Geoff >has not yet confirmed it, but I believe his comments have now been >resolved (I hope so anyway). Do you the modifications satisfy you? > >Andrew > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org] >On Behalf Of Carl R. Stevenson >Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 8:03 AM >To: 'Geoff Thompson'; STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org >Subject: [802SEC] RE: [802SEC] +++EC Email ballot (closes no later than >25SEP2006)+++ Motion to approve the attached EC SC6 recommendation > >Colleagues, > >Sorry ... But upon reviewing Geoff's comments I have to agree with the >points he makes (some of which I hadn't viewed in the same light until >Geoff's comments. > >Therefore, I feel that I have to change my previous approve to >DISAPPROVE. >If Geoff's comments are satisfied I will change my vote back to approve. > >I would have responded to Geoff's comments sooner, but for the time >offset here in Australia. > >Carl > > >-----Original Message----- >From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** >[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:10 PM >To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org >Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email ballot (closes no later than >25SEP2006)+++ Motion to approve the attached EC SC6 recommendation > >Paul/Colleagues- > >I have to join Carl and recommend that these slides be DISAPPROVED > >Please examine these points carefully. I believe they are worthy of >consideration > >The text, early on (slide 4) says: > - . 8802-1 should be modified so that international >standardisation can always be achieved ... > >...which (were there an appropriate WTO case and were I supporting the >"other" side) I would take as evidence for presentation to the judging >body: "Here, the IEEE even admits that they are NOT a lower case >international standard unless they are blessed by ISO/IEC. > >I do not think we want to say that >I do not think that is the case >I think is not an appropriate position for 802 to take wrt the position >that the IEEE-SA takes for its standards. > >Slide 7 statements open a Pandora's box of issues that might well be >nurturing to a relationship with SC6. > >Slide 9, last bullet >Change: >A potential benefit for 802 of a cooperative relationship with ISO/IEC >is that it provides 802 WG's with the option of establishing >"international standard" status for an 802.x standard through ISO/IEC >using a simple documented cooperation process. > >To: >A potential benefit for 802 of a cooperative relationship with ISO/IEC >is that it provides 802 WG's with the option of widening "international >standard" recognition for an 802.x standard through ISO/IEC using a >simple documented cooperation process > >Slide 11: >The title: >"8802-1 should be modified so that international standardisation can >always be achieved ..." >should be changed per my critique of slide 4 above. > >I support slides 12 through 21 > >Please carefully consider these items and reconsider your vote > >Sincerely, > >Geoff Thompson > >At 04:23 PM 9/19/2006 , Paul Nikolich wrote: > >Dear EC Members, > > > >A revised version of the IEEE 802 recommendation on the 8802-1 and > >related documents requested by SC6 is attached for EC approval. > > > >Motion: The 802 LMSC EC resolves to adopt the attached SC6 > >recommendation version 07 dated 19SEP06 (appropriately edited to > >remove > > >the "DRAFT" and "Change History" text.) > > > >Moved-Tony Jeffree Seconded-Mat Sherman > > > >Please cast your vote as soon as possible. The ballot closes the > >earlier of either 25 Sept 2006 or 24 hours after every EC member has > >cast a >vote. > > > >Regards, > > > >--Paul Nikolich > >---------- > >This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. > >This list is maintained by Listserv. > > > > > >---------- >This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. >This list is maintained by Listserv. > >---------- >This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. >This list is maintained by Listserv. >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C6DD0C.8A1CF804" >Subject: RE: [802SEC] [802SEC] +++EC Email ballot (closes no later than >25SEP2006)+++ Motion to approve the attached EC SC6 recommendation >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:28:48 +0800 >Message-ID: ><70CDE339FEE838489EE9580C31AD5765019E79DD@xmb-hkg-414.apac.cisco.com> >X-MS-Has-Attach: yes >X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: >Thread-Topic: [802SEC] [802SEC] +++EC Email ballot (closes no later >than 25SEP2006)+++ Motion to approve the attached EC SC6 recommendation >Thread-Index: Acbc8vrPcRPNsX6kQAaCBqPcaDpxdAADcX2AAAKeO0A= >From: "Andrew Myles \(amyles\)" <amyles@cisco.com> >To: "Andrew Myles \(amyles\)" <amyles@cisco.com>, > "Geoff Thompson" <gthompso@nortel.com>, > "Paul Nikolich" <p.nikolich@IEEE.ORG> >Cc: <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> > >G'day all > >After further reflecting on Geoff's comments, I think we can make some >simple changes to satisfy his concerns. Geoff? > >The changes are fully documented on the Change History page of the >attached document but briefly they are: > >* Changed "8802-1 should be modified so that international >standardisation can always be achieved" to "8802-1 should be modified >so that an ISO/IEC standard can always be achieved" on both pp 4 & pp 11. >This avoids the issue highlighted by Geoff by not equating >"international standardisation" with the what ISO/IEC do. > >* Changed "establishing" to "widening" exactly as suggested by Geoff > >* Softened language on pp 7 with "Recent attempts to use the >endorsement process defined in 8802-1 for 802.11ma approval failed >after SC6 NBs did not receive Liaisons from 802.11 WG" > >* Removed "Probably because it definitely gives an 802.x document >"standards status"" on pp7 based on comments by Geoff on pp 4 and pp 9 > >I hope we are now over the line!!!!!!! This is where I start praying ;) > >Andrew > >-----Original Message----- >From: Andrew Myles (amyles) >Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 8:44 AM >To: 'Geoff Thompson'; Paul Nikolich >Cc: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org >Subject: RE: [802SEC] [802SEC] +++EC Email ballot (closes no later than >25SEP2006)+++ Motion to approve the attached EC SC6 recommendation > >G'day Geoff, > >I believe Carl's issues have now been resolved and he has now voted >APPROVE. > >You have interpreted "8802-1 should be modified so that international >standardisation can always be achieved" to mean "the IEEE even admits >that they are NOT a lower case international standard unless they are >blessed by ISO/IEC". I believe you have misinterpreted what the >sentence actually says. It only says that the process in 8802-1 should >be defined so that an ISO/IEC international standard results. >Alternatively, it says that the "endorsement process" provides no value >to anyone. The evidence is that the endorsement process has never been >used. It does not say that IEEE cannot achieve international >standardisation in another way (sorry for a double negative), including >by recognition of IEEE as a truly "international" SDO. > >You have interpreted "A potential benefit for 802 of a cooperative >relationship with ISO/IEC is that it provides 802 WG's with the option >of establishing "international standard" status for an 802.x standard >through ISO/IEC using a simple documented cooperation process" as >implying that we believe IEEE is not an international SDO. However, I >believe you have neglected to parse the important phrase "... through >ISO/IEC". The sentence only talks about establishing an international >standard through ISO/IEC. It does not say anything about or disallow >other ways of establishing an international standard. > >In both cases we could improve the language but I believe any risk of >misinterpretation is small because we have made our view about the IEEE >status as an international SDO relative to other SDOs and the reasons >for potentially using ISO/IEC clear on pp9 as follows: >* "The WTO & similar organisations give special status to >"international standards" that assists global acceptance" >* "The definition of an "international standard" is not always clear, >however we note that both ITU-R & ITU-T have recognised IEEE as an >international SDO by granting IEEE membership in the same category as >ISO" >* "Nevertheless, an ISO/IEC standard may be more acceptable to some >stakeholders as an "international standard"" > >On pp7 the only item of potential difficulty I cam see is "Recent >attempts to use the endorsement process defined in 8802-1 for 802.11ma >approval failed when multiple Liaison statements to SC6 were not >forwarded to the SC6 NBs". This statement is entirely true and was >merely being used to show there are practical difficulties in the >existing process. I guess the SC6 Secretariat could be upset by this >statement although they are not named, but they would need to be very >"thin skinned". > >Andrew > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-stds-802-sec@IEEE.ORG [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@IEEE.ORG] >On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson >Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 6:10 AM >To: Paul Nikolich >Cc: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org >Subject: Re: [802SEC] [802SEC] +++EC Email ballot (closes no later than >25SEP2006)+++ Motion to approve the attached EC SC6 recommendation > >Paul/Colleagues- > >I have to join Carl and recommend that these slides be DISAPPROVED > >Please examine these points carefully. I believe they are worthy of >consideration > >The text, early on (slide 4) says: > - * 8802-1 should be modified so that international >standardisation can always be achieved ... > >...which (were there an appropriate WTO case and were I supporting the >"other" side) I would take as evidence for presentation to the judging >body: "Here, the IEEE even admits that they are NOT a lower case >international standard unless they are blessed by ISO/IEC. > >I do not think we want to say that >I do not think that is the case >I think is not an appropriate position for 802 to take wrt the position >that the IEEE-SA takes for its standards. > >Slide 7 statements open a Pandora's box of issues that might well be >nurturing to a relationship with SC6. > >Slide 9, last bullet >Change: >A potential benefit for 802 of a cooperative relationship with ISO/IEC >is that it provides 802 WG's with the option of establishing >"international standard" status for an 802.x standard through ISO/IEC >using a simple documented cooperation process. > >To: >A potential benefit for 802 of a cooperative relationship with ISO/IEC >is that it provides 802 WG's with the option of widening "international >standard" recognition for an 802.x standard through ISO/IEC using a >simple documented cooperation process > >Slide 11: >The title: >"8802-1 should be modified so that international standardisation can >always be achieved ..." >should be changed per my critique of slide 4 above. > >I support slides 12 through 21 > >Please carefully consider these items and reconsider your vote > >Sincerely, > >Geoff Thompson > >At 04:23 PM 9/19/2006 , Paul Nikolich wrote: > >Dear EC Members, > > > >A revised version of the IEEE 802 recommendation on the 8802-1 and > >related documents requested by SC6 is attached for EC approval. > > > >Motion: The 802 LMSC EC resolves to adopt the attached SC6 > >recommendation version 07 dated 19SEP06 (appropriately edited to > >remove > > >the "DRAFT" and "Change History" text.) > > > >Moved-Tony Jeffree Seconded-Mat Sherman > > > >Please cast your vote as soon as possible. The ballot closes the > >earlier of either 25 Sept 2006 or 24 hours after every EC member has >cast a vote. > > > >Regards, > > > >--Paul Nikolich > >---------- > >This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. > >This list is maintained by Listserv. > > > > > >---------- >This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. >This list is maintained by Listserv. ---------- This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.
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