[802SEC] FW: [802-11WG] FW: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ WG Voting Procedures
FYI, Comments from an 802.11 member.....
Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Senior Member Technical Staff
BAE Systems Network Enabled Solutions (NES)
Office: +1 973.633.6344
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart J. Kerry [mailto:stuart@ok-brit.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 2:06 PM
To: 'Matthew Fischer'; Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
Cc: apetrick@widefi.com; hworstell@research.att.com
Subject: RE: [802-11WG] FW: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ WG
Voting Procedures
Matthew,
Thank you for providing your comments on the 802 LMSC P&P revision, with
this email I am forwarding you email to Matt Sherman. I look forward to
his
early reply.
Thanks again,
/ Stuart
_______________________________
Stuart J. Kerry
Chair, IEEE 802.11 WLANs WG
c/o: Philips Semiconductors, Inc.
1109 McKay Drive, M/S 48A SJ,
San Jose, CA 95131-1706,
United States of America.
+1 (408) 474-7356 - Phone
+1 (408) 474-5343 - Fax
+1 (408) 348-3171 - Cell
eMail: stuart.kerry@philips.com
Web: www.semiconductors.com
_______________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Fischer [mailto:mfischer@broadcom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 10:56 AM
To: stuart@ok-brit.com
Subject: RE: [802-11WG] FW: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ WG
Voting Procedures
Stuart,
Please forward the following comments to Matt.
1)
7.2.4.3 Chair's Function
The Chair of the Working Group decides non-technical issues but may
allow
non-technical motions.
* What is the meaning of the phrase: "decides non-technical issues"?
Does this mean that the chair will determine the resolution of
non-technical
issues?
If so, can this determination involve a vote of the WG?
I believe that is the intent of the wording, but there is a problem with
the
sentence structure and terminology.
The sentence is a bit confusing, because it mixes two different terms:
A) it discusses "issues" - a very poorly defined term
B) it discusses "motions" - a very well-defined term
The sentence seems to link/confuse the two terms with the connective
"but".
By using "but" there is the appearance that "issues" and "motions" are
the
same.
If this is true, then "issues" should be replaced with "motions."
If this is NOT true, then there should be two sentences, or more in
order to
define what an "issue" is.
E.g. I think that the following is what is really meant - and this seems
like a much clearer set of statements:
The Chair of the Working Group has the authority to decide the
resolution of
non-technical motions. The Chair of the Working Group may allow a vote
of
the Working Group in order to decide the resolution of a non-technical
motion, but is not required to do so.
(But wait - there's more...)
2)
Remind me again why we changed the term "procedural" to "non-technical"
3)
There are seemingly contradictory instructions regarding the
determination
as to the nature of a motion.
I.e. there are two sentences:
Technical issues are those that can impact the substance of output
documents
of the Working Group.
The Working Group Chair decides which issues are technical.
One sentence gives a definition of technical, and the other gives a
different defintion, which is effectively - "technical is whatever the
chair
decides is technical."
It cannot be both.
I understand that the chair has the authority to make the decision, but
this
is not at all clear from the wording. The wording MUST include some
hierarchy to indicate that this is the case. E.g.
The Working Group Chair decides which motions are technical, using the
general guideline that technical motions are those that can impact the
substance of output documents of the Working Group.
(But wait - there's more...)
4)
The order of the sentences should be re-arranged:
Here is the current ordering:
7.2.4.3 Chair's Function
The Chair of the Working Group decides non-technical issues but may
allow
non-technical motions. Technical issues are those that can impact the
substance of output documents of the Working Group. The Working Group
members and the Chair decide technical issues by vote. The Working Group
Chair decides which issues are technical.
I would propose the following, which includes the previous two suggested
changes as well:
7.2.4.3 Chair's Function
The Chair of the Working Group has the authority to decide the
resolution of
non-technical motions. The Chair of the Working Group may allow a vote
of
the Working Group in order to decide the resolution of a non-technical
motion, but is not required to do so.
The Working Group members and the Chair decide technical issues by vote
of
the Working Group.
The Working Group Chair decides which motions are technical, using the
general guideline that technical motions are those that can impact the
substance of output documents of the Working Group.
Ok - so that's my complete suggested re-write of the paragraph.
5)
7.2.4.2.1 Voting at Meetings
Note that the first sentence refers to a "technical vote" and the second
sentence refers to a "non-technical motion". I am not certain of which
term
is incorrect, but one of them has to be.
I'm going to make a guess...
So in the first sentence of 7.2.4.2.1, I would change:
A technical vote
To
A vote on a technical motion
This language seems to match the language of the chair's authority to
decide
which motions are technical and which are non-technical. I.e. it is the
MOTION which is technical or not. The vote is just a vote.
6)
7.2.4.2.2 Voting by Letter Ballots
One instance of confirmation ballot was not changed - I suspect that
this is
because that occurrence refers to the Sponsor Group, and not the Working
Group, correct?
In any case, I would suggest making a few modifications to the language.
I propose the following:
To forward a draft standard or a revised standard to the Executive
Committee
for approval for Sponsor Ballot Group voting, a letter ballot requesting
that the draft standard or revised standard be forwarded to the
Executive
Committee for approval for Sponsor Ballot Group voting must have been
passed
by the Working Group. In order for such a letter ballot to pass within
the
Working Group, a 75 percent approval is necessary with at least 50
percent
of the members voting. The 75 percent figure is computed only from the
"Approve" and "Do Not Approve" votes of the letter ballot. Subsequent
confirmation ballots to the Sponsor Ballot Group do not require
Executive
Committee approval.
7)
7.2.4.2.2 Voting by Letter Ballots
In the second paragraph, I would consider changing the phrase
"affirmative
letter ballot" to "passing letter ballot".
Either that, or go back to the first paragraph and change all instances
of
forms of the verb "pass" to the appropriate form of the verb "affirm".
Note that in 7.2.4.4 (unrelated matters) the term for a successful
ballot
operation is "pass" - and in this instance, it is "affirm" - I did not
look
any farther than this document, and the score is 1 to 1 -- maybe in the
larger document, there are more instances, and the issue can be settled
according to precedent. Otherwise, I'd just say, flip a coin and make
them
all the same.
Matthew Fischer
Nice Guy
408 543 3370 office
650 796 9206 mobile
mfischer@broadcom.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ***** IEEE stds-802-11 List *****
> [mailto:STDS-802-11@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Stuart J. Kerry
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:12 PM
> To: STDS-802-11@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [802-11WG] FW: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot
> +++ WG Voting Procedures
>
> --- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Working Group
> Reflector ---<P>
>
>
>
> 802.11 Members,
>
> Please see the attached LMSC P&P revision ballot titled "WG
> Voting Procedures". Please provide me any comments by 1
> October so that I can forward them to Matt.
>
> Regards,
>
> / Stuart
>
> _______________________________
>
> Stuart J. Kerry
> Chair, IEEE 802.11 WLANs WG
>
> c/o: Philips Semiconductors, Inc.
> 1109 McKay Drive, M/S 48A SJ,
> San Jose, CA 95131-1706,
> United States of America.
>
> +1 (408) 474-7356 - Phone
> +1 (408) 474-5343 - Fax
> +1 (408) 348-3171 - Cell
> eMail: stuart.kerry@philips.com
> Web: www.semiconductors.com
> _______________________________
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
> [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Sherman, Matthew
> J. (US SSA)
> Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 8:16 PM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> Subject: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ WG Voting
> Procedures
>
> Dear EC members,
>
>
>
> Attached you will find the text for an LMSC P&P revision
> ballot titled 'WG Voting Procedures'. This ballot was
> approved at the Friday July 21st, 2006 EC meeting. The text
> is identical to that presented at the meeting. The purpose
> and rationale for the ballot are as given in the attached
> ballot document.
>
>
>
> Ballot Duration: 9/3/2006 - 10/3/2006 @ 11:59 PM EDT
>
>
>
> WG/TAG chairs, please distribute this P&P revision ballot to
> your groups, and invite them to comment through you. Please
> direct any comments on this revision to the reflector,
> myself, and Al Petrick (
> apetrick@widefi.com) for collection. A ballot resolution
> teleconference will be scheduled for sometime prior to the
> November 2006 Plenary Session.
>
>
>
> Thanks & Regards,
>
>
>
> Mat
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
> Senior Member Technical Staff
> BAE Systems Network Enabled Solutions (NES)
> Office: +1 973.633.6344
> email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
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