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Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005

Trust me - I worked with Dell for weeks on this one before they gave up
a year ago.  Perhaps things have changed.

Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Senior Member Technical Staff
BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
Office: +1 973.633.6344
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Rigsbee, Everett O [mailto:everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 2:37 PM
To: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA); STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: RE: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment
Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005


Hi Matt,  The BIOS is of course the SW that talks to the hardware and it
is quite common for Dell to fix a hardware flaw with a BIOS Update that
"programs around the problem".  It's at least worth a try.  Glad to hear
you're not put off by all of the presumed security boogeymen that are
lurking about waiting to pounce.    :-)   

Dell has generally be been very helpful in solving these types of
problems for me, also worth a shot if you're stuck.  

Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing - SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
(425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
[mailto:matthew.sherman@BAESYSTEMS.COM] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 11:07 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment
Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005


I'll have to double check, but my impression is the problem I'm talking
about is HARDWARE problem.  It is actually specific to a particular
subclass of D600 computers, not all D600 computers.  But for fun, I'll
try upgrading the BIOS and see if it makes a difference.

Mat

Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Senior Member Technical Staff
BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
Office: +1 973.633.6344
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Rigsbee, Everett O [mailto:everett.o.rigsbee@BOEING.COM] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 2:00 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment
Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005

Geoff,  The BIOS Upgrade is provided and certified by Dell, and VeriLAN
is merely advising you that with that model of computer without the
upgrade you are likely to experience some of the problems to which Matt
has alluded.  If you don't think your company would approve of you using
Dell's BIOS Upgrade facility to fix the known bug, then you should
refrain from doing it and installing the Tri-Mode card.  Where's the
problem ???  

VeriLAN's role is support-only.  They would advise you of things to
check before attempting the install, any things to watch out for during
the install, and suggest some remedies if you should experience a
problem.  They do not "mess with your machine."  OK ???  Are we clear on
that now ???

Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing - SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
(425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Thompson [mailto:gthompso@nortel.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 4:05 PM
To: Rigsbee, Everett O
Cc: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment
Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005


Buzz-

I am QUITE sure that my companies IS department would be very happy at
the 
prospect of an upgrade to my BIOS being done by an unknown (to them)
party.

In this era of security issues,  I would agree with them.

Geoff


At 10:46 AM 7/25/2005 , Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
>Matt,  I'm aware of lots of "horror stories"  with early provider 
>products.  And Dell's D600 problem is well known and solved by doing a 
>BIOS upgrade.  The reason we are recommending the Tri-Mode card is so
you 
>don't have to be swapping it in and out, which is where all the
problems 
>come in.  With a new Tri-Mode card you install once and then just use
it 
>wherever.
>Part of our proposal is that our experienced Network Service Vendor,
>VeriLAN, will hand out the new cards and provide support for those
wishing 
>to upgrade, so that we avoid 95% of the pitfalls that way.  They will
>ensure things like required BIOS Upgrades are made prior to attempting 
>installation.
>
>I know we can't expect 100% trouble-free upgrades, but if we do out 
>homework we should be able to minimize the problem scenarios to a few 
>simple work-arounds.
>
>Thanx,  Buzz
>Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>Boeing - SSG
>PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>Seattle, WA  98124-2207
>(425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
>Cell: (425) 417-1022
>everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
>[mailto:matthew.sherman@baesystems.com]
>Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 9:47 AM
>To: Rigsbee, Everett O; STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
>Subject: RE: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network
Equipment 
>Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
>
>
>Frankly I have an 802.11a card and rarely use it.  I find that the 
>integrated 802.11g card in my primary laptop works fine normally, so it
is 
>more trouble than it is worth to reach into my bag to install and
>configure the 11a card.  It may be convenient for the network provider
to 
>use 802.11a, but less so for the user.
>
>I'll note, that when I ran this 11a card under WIN2K the 802.11a it 
>regularly crashed my computer, which is why I rarely used it.  I could 
>never get the card provider to fix the problem.  It works fine under XP
I 
>believe, but if someone else wound up with this network card (which
would 
>cause random crashes on my machine often losing significant data under
>WIN2K) I can see the liability issues.
>
>I have another card that runs fine in any computer except a Dell D600 
>(which of course is all we field at work).  While it does not cause
system 
>crashes it freezes the machine completely until you eject the card.
The 
>funny thing is that while it is apparently a Dell design flaw, only
>certain network cards exhibit the problem.  There is a particular 
>reference design that I find this problem follows.  I think I purchased

>the first cards based on that reference design.  I complained to the
>provider of those cards and (after several months) they developed a
work 
>around.  I recently purchased a card from a different provider that I
know 
>is based on the same reference design since as soon as I popped it into
my 
>D600 exhibited the same exact symptoms.  I started to complain to the
card 
>provider, but quickly realized this was going to be another 4 month
cycle 
>of finger pointing, so I never even bothered to get a fix.  It happens
to 
>be a fantastic design except for that one bug (whi!
>  ch actually is in the computer, not the card), so I just don't use
that 
> card in any of my D600's.  I do sometimes plug in that card (which I
need 
> a little extra range) when I'm on the road.
>
>Moral of the story - There's a lot of gotya's out there.  Be very wary!
>
>Mat
>
>PS - Somehow I feel there should be a Bugs Bunny joke after that last
>line...
>
>Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
>Senior Member Technical Staff
>BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
>Office: +1 973.633.6344
>email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rigsbee, Everett O [mailto:everett.o.rigsbee@BOEING.COM]
>Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:27 PM
>To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
>Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network
>Equipment
>Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
>
>John,  I believe the motion gives permission to acquire the 802.11a 
>modules and direction for us to come up with a proposal for how to
proceed 
>on encouraging 802.11a usage (whether it is FREE or not) and certainly
>your option would be one of those considered.  Whatever we come up with

>for the latter the EC will have a final review and approve before we do

>anything.
>
>So let's complete the motion and then explore our options for
>encouraging
>802.11a usage.
>
>Thanx,  Buzz
>Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>Boeing - SSG
>PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>Seattle, WA  98124-2207
>(425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
>Cell: (425) 417-1022
>everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Hawkins [mailto:jhawkins@NORTEL.COM]
>Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 5:38 AM
>To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
>Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network
>Equipment
>Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
>
>
>I'm not sure there's a mechanism for this now that the ballot is out 
>but... Can we hold off on this a few days?
>
>I have a potential source for FREE APs. I'm trying to determine with
>Tim,
>whether they would measure up to his standards. They are A/B/G's, SNMP 
>manageable, etc... but the devil's in the details.
>
>And best of all they will be FREE! ! !
>
>Can I have a few days to look into this?
>
>(the budget needs all the help it can get).
>
>john
>
>P.S. If this offer for FREE APs doesn't come to pass, I still have some

>reservations (even though I agreed to second). I would want to see a 
>budget (no blank checks please) and I still have reservations about
giving 
>away wireless cards (again, budget, and liability concerns).
>
>john
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Nikolich [mailto:paul.nikolich@ATT.NET]
>Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 6:49 PM
>To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
>Subject: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment
>Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
>
>
>Dear EC Members,
>
>This is a email ballot to make a determination on the below motion.
>
>Motion:
>"Whereas our Network Manager, Tim Godfrey, has recommended that we
>proceed
>with acquisition of the 802.11a modules for our Cisco 1200 APs that are

>not currently so equipped, and that we make an effort to encourage our
>attendees to migrate to 802.11a for reduced congestion:
>
>
>I move that we proceed to acquire those additional 802.11a modules
>(20),
>and further that we investigate a promotional deal to encourage more of

>our attendees to upgrade to Tri-Mode (802.11b, 11g, 11a) interface
cards, 
>which would also allow us to regulate client transmit power levels in
>dense configurations.  Terms of deal will be reviewed with the Network 
>Services Advisory Committee, and presented for final approval by the
802 
>EC prior to implementation."
>
>
>Moved: Rigsbee
>Second: Hawkins
>
>The ballot opens 7PM ET Sunday 24 July 2005 and closes Friday 19 August

>2005 2005.
>
>Regards,
>
>--Paul Nikolich
>
>
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