Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005

["Rigsbee, Everett O" <everett.o.rigsbee@BOEING.COM>]

Carl,  There is certainly no more liability than we have now with the current "loaner cards" we give out each meeting, and we would of course have the individual sign a waiver to accept the responsibility for choosing the upgrade.  We do not take on liability for something which the attendee chooses.  If he does that without his company's permission, he is liable to them for the result.  We are NOT responsible for his voluntary actions.  If however, we were insisting that he disable his firewalls to be on our network, without giving him fair warning of the possible consequences of such actions, then we could be taking on some share of the liability for his action.  With us holding a signed waiver, he owns the liability, and the fact that we had him physically sign such a waiver is proof that we made him aware of his responsibility for his choice.  

We expect that we can arrange a promotional offer for a batch of the latest Tri-Mode cards at little or no cost to IEEE 802 as we have done in the past.  The product placement value is worth more to the vendor than the cost of the cards themselves.  We just have to select the one that meets all our requirements and provides the best overall deal for IEEE 802.  That's nothing that we haven't done before.  I'm not about selling cards, I'm for offerring our attendees a one-time opportunity to trade-up to better service at no out-of-pocket-cost to them.  

Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing - SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
(425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Carl R. Stevenson [mailto:wk3c@wk3c.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:49 PM
To: Rigsbee, Everett O; STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: RE: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005


Buzz,

I agree with Stuart, Pat, and others on the liability issues ... 

I would likely approve an AP only motion with a NTE price of $6k, *if* Tim thinks it's really necessary AND that it will result in a significant improvement in the performace of our network (not clear, since so few seem to have a/b/g cards ...), but as long as there is a component aimed at getting us into the "business" of supplying NICs, I will vote "DIS" ...

BTW ... How do you propose to fund giving the NICs away for "FREE" (emphasis yours below) ???

Carl
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rigsbee, Everett O [mailto:everett.o.rigsbee@BOEING.COM]
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 5:10 PM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for 
> Network Equipment Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
> 
> Pat,  Well, thanx for your input but I would like to respond:
> 
> 1)  We have bought 802.11a modules for our APs before; they
> cost about $250-300 each on the internet but we have gotten 
> discount deals from Cisco in the past that will probably let 
> us do better than that, so a not to exceed number is about $6K.
> 
> 2)  The 2nd part of the motion is to determine if we intend
> to take action to solve this problem we have been 
> experiencing for several meetings now.  For several meetings 
> we have continued to speculate that the problem will go away 
> (but it hasn't, we still only have 10% of attendees on 11a) 
> or to try to blame it on the Network Service Provider (which 
> is not fair since they cannot change the laws of physics).  
> I'm suggesting that we need to take a proactive role in 
> solving this problem, not just letting it recur indefinitely. 
>  We have consulted with our best network advisors who 
> understand the problem, and they have indicated that the only 
> effective way is to encourage folks to upgrade to 11a.  I 
> don't have any plans to pay anything to anybody, but I DO 
> want some commitment that if we do all the homework to come 
> up with a solution for the problem that we are not going have 
> to listen to this kind of speculative BS about why we 
> shouldn't have to do anything at all.  How many mo!
>  re congested meetings do we need to have before we agree to 
> act ???  I hope the answer is NONE.  
> 
> 3)  Pat,  I don't know how many times you've rushed out and
> plunked down your hard-earned cash to upgrade your employer's 
> property, but I don't think many folks are willing to do that 
> even if it was only $50.  Also if everybody buys their own we 
> will probably have few of the manageable types which will 
> listen to power level advisories so they turn down their 
> transmit power and thereby cause less interference in the 
> congested meeting rooms.  We have a one-time chance here to 
> solve the problem and improve manageability of our networks 
> for a small or perhaps free (depending on the deal we get) 
> investment.  We'll give out for FREE exactly the card we 
> would prefer them to use, if and only if, they agree to take 
> responsibility for receiving the upgrade, and we will provide 
> support if they should have some difficulty with it.  What 
> could be more fair ???  I would really like to see our 
> percentage of 11a users increase for next time since that 
> will alleviate the problem.  And, yes, !
>  we may only need to do this once to jump start the solution 
> process and it may carry-on from there all on it's own.  But 
> I don't think we want to go through one more meeting 
> listening to people whining about how we've known about this 
> problem for several meetings and still we have done NOTHING 
> to address it.    
> 
> So let's quit with the pointless speculations and get on with
> a proactive solution as our network advisors have 
> recommended.  We just need to figure out how to do it 
> reasonably, and you'll get to hear and approve of the plan 
> before anything gets put in motion.  
> 
> Thanx,  Buzz
> Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> Boeing - SSG
> PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> Seattle, WA  98124-2207
> (425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
> Cell: (425) 417-1022
> everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Thaler [mailto:pat_thaler@AGILENT.COM]
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:31 PM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for
> Network Equipment Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
> 
> 
> I'm voting disapprove on this motion.
> 
> I can't vote for a motion to acquire something when the
> motion doesn't include a maximum expenditure number. With a 
> reasonable number attached, I could probably vote for the 
> first part of the motion.
> 
> Further, I don't see why a motion is needed to "investigate a
> promotional deal". You can investigate anything you want. Is 
> there some commitment of IEEE 802 implied by that 
> investigation (e.g. money to pay someone to conduct the 
> investigation)? If so, what are we committing to? If not, we 
> don't need a motion.
> 
> I'm not sure what is meant by a promotional deal. I am
> opposed to committing any IEEE 802 funds to buy equipment for 
> attendee laptops. In addition, I know that the laptops my 
> company currently buys come equipped with a/b/g and I doubt 
> that many more laptops will be acquired without it. Given the 
> short life span of most laptops I think the lack of 802.11a 
> equipped laptops is a short term problem. People who want an 
> a/b/g card can already acquire one at a fairly negligible price. 
> 
> Regards,
> Pat
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Nikolich [mailto:paul.nikolich@ATT.NET]
> Sent: Sunday, 24 July, 2005 3:49 PM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> Subject: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network 
> Equipment Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
> 
> Dear EC Members,
> 
> This is a email ballot to make a determination on the below motion.
> 
> Motion:
> "Whereas our Network Manager, Tim Godfrey, has recommended 
> that we proceed with acquisition of the 802.11a modules for 
> our Cisco 1200 APs that are not currently so equipped, and 
> that we make an effort to encourage our attendees to migrate 
> to 802.11a for reduced congestion:  
>  
> 
> I move that we proceed to acquire those additional 802.11a
> modules (20), and further that we investigate a promotional 
> deal to encourage more of our attendees to upgrade to 
> Tri-Mode (802.11b, 11g, 11a) interface cards, which would 
> also allow us to regulate client transmit power levels in 
> dense configurations.  Terms of deal will be reviewed with 
> the Network Services Advisory Committee, and presented for 
> final approval by the 802 EC prior to implementation." 
> 
> 
> Moved: Rigsbee
> Second: Hawkins
> 
> The ballot opens 7PM ET Sunday 24 July 2005 and closes Friday
> 19 August 2005 
> 2005.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --Paul Nikolich
> 
> 
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