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Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005

Hi Harry,  I am aware of some companies with lockdown policies, in fact my company, Boeing, is one of them, but most do allow their senior technical staff members to retain administrative privileges, since they supposedly have the experience and judgement to avoid actions that would compromise their company's network integrity.  Since many 802 attendees are those same guys I would venture that many, like Matt, will have the option to seek an upgrade if they so choose.  

I would suggest that if we want to do this, we make it totally optional, it's the attendees choice to use it or not based on his knowledge of what his company will and will NOT permit, and that we have each person that we assist sign a waiver form agreeing to assume all responsibility for the impact of the upgrade.  That avoids any liability to us and gives folks fair warning that this is not something they should do casually without consideration of the possible impacts.  

Even with all that I would bet that a fair number would still choose to upgrade and every little bit will help a lot.  

Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing - SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
(425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com



-----Original Message-----
From: hworstell@research.att.com [mailto:hworstell@research.att.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 10:57 AM
To: Rigsbee, Everett O
Subject: RE: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005


Hi Buzz,

Are you sure the IEEE and IEEE 802 should take
the responsibility for installing these cards
and upgrades. Many, if not most, employers "lock down"
their computers and only the companies IT personnel
have access to do these upgrades. There are liability 
issues here you should carefully look at before we act.

Best regards,
Harry 


Harry R. Worstell
PTSM - Broadband Transmission Research 
AT&T Labs - Shannon Laboratory 
Vice Chair, IEEE 802.11 Working Group
Room B233, Building 103 
180 Park Avenue 
P.O. Box 971 
Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971 
Phone: +1 (973) 236-6915 
Cell  +1(973) 727-5564
Fax: +1 (973) 360-5873 
EMAIL: hworstell@research.att.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rigsbee, Everett O [mailto:everett.o.rigsbee@BOEING.COM] 
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 1:46 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment
Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005

Matt,  I'm aware of lots of "horror stories"  with early provider products.  And Dell's D600 problem is well known and solved by doing a BIOS upgrade.  The reason we are recommending the Tri-Mode card is so you don't have to be swapping it in and out, which is where all the problems come in.  With a new Tri-Mode card you install once and then just use it wherever.  
Part of our proposal is that our experienced Network Service Vendor, VeriLAN, will hand out the new cards and provide support for those wishing to upgrade, so that we avoid 95% of the pitfalls that way.  They will ensure things like required BIOS Upgrades are made prior to attempting installation.  

I know we can't expect 100% trouble-free upgrades, but if we do out homework we should be able to minimize the problem scenarios to a few simple work-arounds.  

Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing - SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
(425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA) [mailto:matthew.sherman@baesystems.com]
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 9:47 AM
To: Rigsbee, Everett O; STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: RE: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment
Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005


Frankly I have an 802.11a card and rarely use it.  I find that the integrated 802.11g card in my primary laptop works fine normally, so it is more trouble than it is worth to reach into my bag to install and configure the 11a card.  It may be convenient for the network provider to use 802.11a, but less so for the user.  

I'll note, that when I ran this 11a card under WIN2K the 802.11a it regularly crashed my computer, which is why I rarely used it.  I could never get the card provider to fix the problem.  It works fine under XP I believe, but if someone else wound up with this network card (which would cause random crashes on my machine often losing significant data under WIN2K) I can see the liability issues. 

I have another card that runs fine in any computer except a Dell D600 (which of course is all we field at work).  While it does not cause system crashes it freezes the machine completely until you eject the card.  The funny thing is that while it is apparently a Dell design flaw, only certain network cards exhibit the problem.  There is a particular reference design that I find this problem follows.  I think I purchased the first cards based on that reference design.  I complained to the provider of those cards and (after several months) they developed a work around.  I recently purchased a card from a different provider that I know is based on the same reference design since as soon as I popped it into my D600 exhibited the same exact symptoms.  I started to complain to the card provider, but quickly realized this was going to be another 4 month cycle of finger pointing, so I never even bothered to get a fix.  It happens to be a fantastic design except for that one bug (whi!
 !  ch actually is in the computer, not the card), so I just don't use that card in any of my D600's.  I do sometimes plug in that card (which I need a little extra range) when I'm on the road.

Moral of the story - There's a lot of gotya's out there.  Be very wary!

Mat

PS - Somehow I feel there should be a Bugs Bunny joke after that last line...

Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Senior Member Technical Staff
BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
Office: +1 973.633.6344
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Rigsbee, Everett O [mailto:everett.o.rigsbee@BOEING.COM] 
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:27 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment
Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005

John,  I believe the motion gives permission to acquire the 802.11a modules and direction for us to come up with a proposal for how to proceed on encouraging 802.11a usage (whether it is FREE or not) and certainly your option would be one of those considered.  Whatever we come up with for the latter the EC will have a final review and approve before we do anything.  

So let's complete the motion and then explore our options for encouraging 802.11a usage.  

Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing - SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
(425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com



-----Original Message-----
From: John Hawkins [mailto:jhawkins@NORTEL.COM] 
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 5:38 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment
Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005


I'm not sure there's a mechanism for this now that the ballot is out but... Can we hold off on this a few days?

I have a potential source for FREE APs. I'm trying to determine with Tim, whether they would measure up to his standards. They are A/B/G's, SNMP manageable, etc... but the devil's in the details.

And best of all they will be FREE! ! !

Can I have a few days to look into this?

(the budget needs all the help it can get).

john

P.S. If this offer for FREE APs doesn't come to pass, I still have some reservations (even though I agreed to second). I would want to see a budget (no blank checks please) and I still have reservations about giving away wireless cards (again, budget, and liability concerns).

john


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Nikolich [mailto:paul.nikolich@ATT.NET] 
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 6:49 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment
Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005


Dear EC Members,

This is a email ballot to make a determination on the below motion.

Motion: 
"Whereas our Network Manager, Tim Godfrey, has recommended that we proceed with acquisition of the 802.11a modules for our Cisco 1200 APs that are not currently so equipped, and that we make an effort to encourage our attendees to migrate to 802.11a for reduced congestion:  
 

I move that we proceed to acquire those additional 802.11a modules (20), and further that we investigate a promotional deal to encourage more of our attendees to upgrade to Tri-Mode (802.11b, 11g, 11a) interface cards, which would also allow us to regulate client transmit power levels in dense configurations.  Terms of deal will be reviewed with the Network Services Advisory Committee, and presented for final approval by the 802 EC prior to implementation." 


Moved: Rigsbee
Second: Hawkins

The ballot opens 7PM ET Sunday 24 July 2005 and closes Friday 19 August 2005 
2005.

Regards,

--Paul Nikolich


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