[802SEC] Fwd: 802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ WG Membership & Meeting P&P
Dear EC members
Attached are some comments from Larry Arnett, who is a member of 802.15,
related to this motion
Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 15:23:46
-0700
From: "Arnett, Larry" <Larry.Arnett@renesas.com>
Subject: Comment Submittal: +++ LMSC P&P Revision +++
To: Bob Heile <bheile@ieee.org>
Cc: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com, james.d.allen@ieee.org,
"Patrick Kinney
(E-mail)" <pat.kinney@ieee.org>
Now for my comments on
the proposed LMSC P&P revision.
Paragraph 7.2.2 WG
Officers
---------------------------
Request for
clarification: This paragraph address WG Officer but only requires the
Chair to be an IEEE and IEEE-SA member. Is that the intent? Since
paragraph 7.2.3.1 encourages ALL WG members to join the IEEE and IEEE-SA,
it would seem reasonable for all WG Chairs and vice Chairs to be expected
to join IEEE & IEEE-SA.
---------------------------
Statement of Preference:
I favor maintaining the term limits for the WG leadership. WG chairs can
gain too much influence as time progresses for the chairmanship to become
a career position. Even when performance is less than superior, removing
incumbents can be very difficult. There are many other ways an emeritus
WG leader can serve the good of the IEEE 802 process without holding one
office for a decade or more.
Recommendation: Remove
"unless approved by a 75% vote of the Working Group."
============================================================
Paragraph 7.2.3.1
Establishment (under Membership)
---------------------------
Request for
clarification: I believe "letter of intent and/or affiliation
statement may be required for membership" mixes two items of recent
discussion and should be clarified and stipulated separately.
#1 - Within the past two
years a policy was brought in to force in our sister WG 802.11 that
members were required to submit a letter (e-mail) of intent to maintain
and thereafter become 802.11 members. We were told this was being
mandated by the SEC. I have no problem with that and therefore, with
regard to letters of intent, the wording "may be" should be
changed to "are". Further, instead of calling it a "letter
of intent" it seems more direct to call it a "request for
membership". The text should also specify the that request for
membership must be submitted after meeting the "two out of
four" Plenary attendance requirement yet prior to the start of the
Plenary session at which the granting of membership rights is
expected.
#2 - Recently I have
heard calls for public declaration of affiliation. It appears that text
of the proposed LMSC P&P revisions enables such requirements if the
Chair so decides. I favor required declaration of affiliations since we
are an open standards body and often a members actions can be better
understood when their affiliation is obvious.
In many of the WGs,
there is currently too much ill will regarding consultants and
speculation as to who might be a paid vote. This is an old and on going
problem that deserves being addressed. Obtaining a 75% or more consensus
to move forward on any technical issue requires building consensus and
striking compromises. Without knowing affiliation, it is often difficult
to understand the real influences on and individual's vote.
I am not familiar with
the meeting registration practices outside of 802.11 and 802.15. For
these two groups, the Wireless World website requires one to provide
contact information which includes company affiliation. By maintaining
current contact information on Wireless World we are constantly
maintaining our affiliation declarations. I believe for all 802 WGs
company affiliation is printed on attendance name badges. I see it as
appropriate that all members be able to know who is paying the bills for
any other member attending IEEE 802 sessions. Since a majority of the 802
members have their affiliation benefactors name printed on their name
badge, it is fair to expect similar postings on consultants' name
badges.
I recommend that a
second affiliation field be added to the registration process and the
information included on the attendee's name badge. When anyone's
attendance is provided by or billed (compensation or expenses) to any
party other than the affiliation given in the first affiliation field,
that affiliation must also be declared. (ie., XYZ Consulting LLC, in
partnership with A Very Big Company, Inc.). While more thought is needed
on this topic, perhaps consultant who are being funded by more than one
client, could disclose their current clients to the working Chair or to a
vice-Chair of their choice and then be considered as being truly free to
vote without encumbrance. The working group leadership can then monitor
to verify the consultant is truly a contributing participant in the work
group meetings and not just a vote. Clearly wording would need to be
carefully crafted as to avoid many potential loop holes.
I would also request
that if anyone, including the chairs, is able to gain access to the
wireless world data base of member profiles, then all other members
should have the same access. (I will note that e-mail addresses are
required for authentication in prevention of list-server abuse. I would
favor maintaining privacy of e-mail addresses to help prevent our being
targeted by spam servers.) I like to think that within the 802 WGs we
work as a team and as such should be able to easily contact one another
between meetings.
---------------------------
Request for
Clarification: New text associating interim sessions with an adjacent
plenary session (within 3 months) that the member did not attend will
eliminate the fast track to membership (ie. March Plenary + May Interim =
July voting rights.) Was that the intent? Even though I have exploited
this rule (because I could) to gain voting rights, I support this change
and think it makes good sense.
Further Clarification:
How will you determine not attended? I would suggest that if the person
failed to meet the 75% attendance rule at the plenary, then an adjacent
interim could be used. For example I may use one Plenary for attendance
credit for one WG. At the same plenary I may attend some sessions of
another WG but have less than 75% credit. I should not be exempt from
using the adjacent interim for credit in another WG.
---------------------------
Request for
Clarification: Please define meeting hours in "Participation at a
session is defined as attending 75% of the meeting hours of a
session." I hope any time Sunday, and evenings of Monday, Tuesday
and Thursday are still exempt from the count of meeting hours.
Related to this, I often
find some TGs will have a slow day mid week and may cancel a session.
Once the agenda w\graphic is approved by the WG in opening plenary, if
attendees show up at a session which was canceled, they should still be
able to receive credit for that session.
I believe there are many
good reasons for someone to establish and maintain voting rights in more
than one Work Group. Rules should not be enacted that would eliminate the
ability to participate in more than one Work Group. 802.11 and 802.15 are
too similar to be mutually exclusive. Likewise, with the potential new RE
activity occurring in 802.1 and 802.3, some of the wireless members may
be motivated to start attending 802.1 meeting also.
============================================================
Paragraph 7.2.3.2 Loss
(under Membership)
---------------------------
Request for
Clarification: "Loss of membership is through lack of attendance is
determined at the end of each Plenary." Is the current ending
session included as one of "the three most recent Plenary
sessions"?
Either way, as I read
process for gaining membership, an attendee with 75% attendance
participation at March and July Plenary sessions could attend the
following July Plenary (one year later) and gain voting rights at the
beginning of the session and then loose them at the end of the same
session. Is that intended? If so, it seems silly.
Jan-I<?xml:namespace prefix
= o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
/>
75% Mar-P
May-I
75% July-P
Sept-I
Nov-P
Jan-I
Mar-P
May-I
75% July-P --> Voter
Sept-I --> Non
Voter
Renesas Technology
-
Everywhere you
imagine
_____________________________________________
Larry Arnett
Senior Market Development Manager
Renesas Technology
America, Inc.
Advanced Solutions Group
450 Holger Way
San Jose, CA 95134-1368
Phone: 408.382-7492
Mobile: 408.893-4986
Email:
Larry.Arnett@Renesas.com
Website:
www.Renesas.com
_____________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-802-wpan@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
[mailto:owner-stds-802-wpan@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG]On
Behalf Of Bob Heile
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:42 AM
To: STDS-802-WPAN@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802.15_GENERAL] Fwd: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision
Ballot +++ WG Membership & Meeting P&P
Please forwards comments back to me preferably before
Cairns
Date:
Mon, 2 May 2005 10:11:21 -0400
Reply-To: "Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)"
<matthew.sherman@BAESYSTEMS.COM>
Sender: owner-stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
From: "Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)"
<matthew.sherman@BAESYSTEMS.COM>
Subject: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ WG
Membership & Meeting P&P
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Dear EC members,
Attached you will find the text for an LMSC P&P revision ballot on
WG
Membership & Meeting Policies and Procedures. This ballot was
approved
at the Friday March 18, 2005 EC meeting. The text is identical to
that
presented at the meeting (but changes have been highlighted).
The
purpose and rationale for the ballot are as given in the attached
ballot
document.
Ballot Duration: 5/2/2005 - 6/2/2005 @ 11:59 PM EST
WG/TAG chairs, please distribute this P&P revision ballot to
your
groups, and invite them to comment through you. Please direct any
comments on this revision to the reflector for collection.
Thanks & Regards,
Mat
<<802.0-EC_Voting_Rules-P&P_Revision_ballot.pdf>>
Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Senior Member Technical Staff
BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
Office: +1 973.633.6344
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
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Bob Heile, Ph.D
Chair, IEEE 802.15 Working Group on Wireless Personal Area Networks
Chair, ZigBee Alliance
11 Louis Road
Attleboro, MA 02703 USA
Mobile: 781-929-4832
Fax:
508-222-0515
email: bheile@ieee.org
Bob Heile, Ph.D
Chair, IEEE 802.15 Working Group on Wireless Personal Area Networks
Chair, ZigBee Alliance
11 Louis Road
Attleboro, MA 02703 USA
Mobile: 781-929-4832
Fax:
508-222-0515
email: bheile@ieee.org
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