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Hi Everyone,
Below please find my notes on the ballot resolution today. Let me know if you have any comments.
Regards,
Mat
Notes from 1/7/05 P&P Revision Ballot Resolution Telecom
Time: 11:30 AM to 1:30 PM EST
Attending were:
Mat
Paul
Mike T
Jerry
Carl
Bob G
Steve
Roger
Mike L
John
Pat
Notes:
The following is a list of issues and resolutions identified based on ballot comments received on the "P&P_Revision_Process" ballot
Comments on missing cross references in document:
Should have corrected before ballot issued
PDF would not have helped
Roger noted one reference in error in source text
Mat will fix
2/3 of what population to initiate ballot (those present, those voting, those with voting rights)? (Bob O / Roger / Carl / Bob G)
Agreed text
'at least 2/3 of those voting approve or disapprove'
Check with SA if 3/4 would apply rather than 2/3
2/3 of what population to approve P&P revision (Bob O / Roger / Carl / Bob G)
I would say tighter standard applies, so denominator is members voting rights even if not at meeting or voting
Agreed text:
'at least 2/3 of members with voting rights (regardless of whether they are present)'
Add in same section "The vote shall be taken at a plenary closing EC meeting"
Deciding Vote rather than tie breaking vote for EC Chair (Bob G)
Agreed to use 'Deciding' vote
Changes to section on EC voting rules (Bob G)
"Only members of the EC with voting rights are counted in either the numerator or denominator in determinating the approval threshold for any EC vote. Unless specified otherwise in these P&P all EC votes are in addition subject to the following provisions. Voting is by simple majority of yea divided by yea plus nay. The quroum requirement is at least one-half of the Executive Committee voting members present. The Chair only votes to break ties."
Agreed to replace existing text with Text above except
The chair cast's only deciding votes.
Use Approve and Disaprove rather than Yea / Nay
In the next draft of this rules change identify the "abstention threshold" for a valid vote as a matter for debate
Oversight of editorial discretion (Carl / Geoff / Bob G)
“Do we need any provision for oversight of this editorial discretion? Suppose someone believes that the meaning HAS been changed or that an approved change has been changed as “erroneous” in a mistaken way?”
Add text to the effect of:
If there is a protest by any voting member of the EC to an editorial change of the P&P within 30 days of release to the EC it will not be effective.
Require PDF with line numbers for ballot distribution? (Geoff)
Does it go in rules, or handle informally?
Paging can change in word. Use in PDF
Informally agree to use PDF
Word pagination varies from use to use
Want fixed pagination when referencing text
Decided line number were overkill
Fixed pagination enough
Why eliminate assignment for further study (Geoff)
Never used
Poorly written
Seems easier to just bring to floor for now initiate ballot vote
Would have taken same percentage if assigned to study
I misunderstood Geoff. Really only next change matters
No changes required for this comment
Clarify “considered again” (Geoff)
Resolution
Kill last two lines of 7.1.6.2 as suggested by Bob G.
Clarify “active” WG/TAG for P&P Rev (Bob G)
In 7.1.6.1. add 'active' before any 'working group or technical advisory group'
Which version of P&P controls? (Geoff)
Posted on web site
Current P&P with all formally approved changes?
When do changes take effect – End of Plenary session they are approved.
Agreed to leave things as is after debate….. No change to when rules become effective
Observability of P&P Rev ballots by 802 participants (Roger)
Why isn’t distribution to WG reflectors enough?
Open reflector just for P&P Rev ballots
I don’t want to deal with the complexity of all comments coming to me from anyone in the world
Needs to be limited to membership
Only EC Votes, not Members!
Membership is through WG
Comment should be through WG chair
Agreed to add following text in section on openness when conducting ballots (7.1.4.2)
Non EC members who wish to comment on a ballot should send comments to the ballot originator unless otherwise specified in the ballot
Open reflector for Non-EC Observers
Delete (Bob G. / Pat)
“If Approval for Distribution and Executive Committee Ballot is not achieved, the proposed revision is rejected, and may not be considered again until a future session.”
Everyone agreed to this chang
Telecom was adjourned
Senior Member Technical Staff
BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
Office: +1 973.633.6344
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
_____________________________________________
From: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 8:48 AM
To: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA); 'STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org'
Cc: 'steve_mills@hp.com'; 'r.pritchard@ieee.org'; 'g.robinson@computer.org'; 'John Walz'; 'James.W.Moore@ieee.org'; 'm.nielsen@ieee.org'; 'd.ringle@ieee.org'
Subject: RE: +++++++++ P&P Ballot Resolution Telecom Notice +++++++++++++ January 7, 2005 @ 11:30 AM EST
Hi Everyone,
As a reminder I will be conducting ballot resolution this Friday per the attached notice.
Thanks,
Mat
Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Senior Member Technical Staff
BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
Office: +1 973.633.6344
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
_____________________________________________
From: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 12:33 AM
To: 'STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org'
Cc: 'steve_mills@hp.com'; 'r.pritchard@ieee.org'; 'g.robinson@computer.org'; 'John Walz'; 'James.W.Moore@ieee.org'; 'm.nielsen@ieee.org'; 'd.ringle@ieee.org'
Subject: +++++++++ P&P Ballot Resolution Telecom Notice +++++++++++++ January 7, 2005 @ 11:30 AM EST
Dear EC members,
As approved at the Friday November 19, 2004 EC meeting I intend to conduct ballot resolution on P&P revision ballots by telecom. No “in-person” ballot resolution meeting is planned for the Sunday before the next plenary. So PLEASE participate in these telecoms.
The first telecom will be held on January 7, 2005 from 11:30 AM to 1:30 PM EST. As required I am providing > 30 days notice for the telecom. Ballot resolutions will be conducted on the following two LMSC P&P Revision ballots:
EC Membership and Meetings
LMSC P&P Revision Process
No other topics are on the agenda for this meeting. WG/TAG chairs, please distribute this meeting notice to your groups. If you have comments to be resolved and cannot make the telecom, please arrange for someone else to be present to express any concerns you may have and participate in comment resolution.
The call in for the meeting will be:
1-888-804-4584
PIN 6336344
Thanks & Regards,
Mat
Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Vice Chair, IEEE 802
Senior Member Technical Staff
BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
Mail Stop 11B01
164 Totowa Road
Wayne, NJ 07474-0975
Office: +1 973.633.6344
Cell: +1 973.229.9520
Fax: +1 973.633.6004
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
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