Re: [802SEC] Socials

I must say I agree with everything Geoff says. I think as we get to larger, more well equipped venues, we will find that the social problems will diminish, and thereby the value will increase. We can certainly do something about noise levels. If folks want to do more of an appetizer snack instead of a meal we should be able to elicit that from a poll on the registration form, but my impression is that most folks want enough for a dinner and to stay at least a couple of hours before they go out to network with friends and associates. Given the rate at which the food & desserts diappears, I can't believe that very many folks are skipping the social. :-)

Thanx, Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing - SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA 98124-2207
(425) 865-2443 Fx: (425) 865-6721
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Thompson [mailto:gthompso@NORTELNETWORKS.COM]
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 9:56 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Socials

Mat-

A few more comments on changing the social.

RE:
Mat>    The bottom line is that some groups seem to have problems
Mat>    cramming it all into one week. The bigger we get, the more
Mat>    activities there are, and the more difficult to get all the
Mat>    actual work done. What I am proposing is to move the less
Mat>    critical functions outside of the weekly boundaries.

Cramming it all into one week is basically a scaling problem and we are, admittedly, failing.
I think it is a bad idea to restructure so that the intensity that we now work at for ~ 2 days straight would be extended to five days.
This will only put off the problem for a year or two and then it will come back. In the meantime the burnout factor will jump significantly for many of our members and will weigh in most heavily on our most valued contributors, both technical and officers.

Even if folks do not choose to go to the social, they get a break when they CAN go out to reasonable dinner with selected colleagues for a little negotiation time or just some relationship building.

This is important stuff.
I strongly believe that
        - we should continue to have the social on Wednesday evening
        - we should VERY VERY strongly discourage (I would be willing to forbid) having meeting scheduled that conflict with the social.

I would be willing to scale back the social to something that is more of a prelude to dinner out. I would not be willing to schedule any 802 meetings on Wednesday evening. We need the mid-week break from the structured activities.

I would refer to my ISO experience for reference here. A HUGE portion of the meeting weeks, in my experience, were taken up with coffee breaks and meal breaks. Breaks are where the important negotiation take place. Our filling up the schedule with more meetings during the plenary week is not going to raise our productivity.

Geoff

At 07:25 PM 11/21/2004 -0800, Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA) wrote:

Folks,

My intent was in fact to change the purpose from a Social to a Meet and
Greet. We are no longer 600-800, we are 1600 strong. I'm don't think
the social really plays the role it once did. In fact, I know many
people who intentionally skip it. There are many ways to take a break.
I'd say move the tutorial to the middle of the week and make sure we
don't schedule work during that time. Then people still get a break,
and we have more room for tutorials.

The bottom line is that some groups seem to have problems cramming it
all into one week. The bigger we get, the more activities there are,
and the more difficult to get all the actual work done. What I am
proposing is to move the less critical functions outside of the weekly
boundaries. To me, this includes the function of the plenary meeting,
and the social.

In addition I'm trying to move the EC functions from Monday to Sunday.
Frankly they aren't attended by many. We make the effort to fly in
early already. I think those who are truly interested will as well.
Otherwise, I think some WG may start running on the weekend anyway since
they are running out of time during the week.

So what I'm trying to do is move some less critical functions (such as
comment resolution on P&P ballots) outside the Plenary week altogether.
This then leaves room to move other functions to Sunday. If I were to
make the line up, I'd say run the opening EC meeting from 2 to 4 PM.
Have a 1 hour opening plenary from 4:30 PM to 5:30 PM. Have the meet
and greet. I'd couple it with a short tutorial about 802 afterward for
those who haven't been to an 802 meeting before which explains basics
about work flow and attendance and such. I would move the architecture
meeting to be during the week, and a normal part of 802.1 activities.

So that's my suggestions. I know the meet and greet would be less well
attended, but hey that saves us money to. I think it's main purpose
should be as an introduction for new comers, so I don't see it not being
well attended as a problem. The key is to activity encourage new
comings to fly in early for their first Plenary session so as to become
familiar with the operations of 802.

Frankly, I don't think we should be making these decisions alone. I
think we should put together a poll with a couple of key questions along
the lines that 802.11 did, and see what people say. Another possibility
we should consider is allowing WG to start their plenary meetings on the
weekend. It seems some groups may already be looking at that. By the
way, I know some people that flew in Thursday the week before to prep
for the actual plenary week.

Regards,

Mat

Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Senior Member Technical Staff
BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
Office: +1 973.633.6344
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-802-sec@listserv.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@listserv.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tony Jeffree
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 5:15 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Socials

Mat et al -

If the objective is to fix the problem of inability to converse due to
the
noise generated by a large group of people, then moving it to Sunday
night
may well be a viable solution, albeit an inequitable one for the reasons
mentioned by others.

However, it seems clear that there is no real solution that fixes all of
the objectives of having a social, so I have to agree with Pat that it
is
well past time to pension it off. There was a time when it was a useful
social gathering and/or opportunity for ritual humiliation of the SEC,
but
that time is long gone.

Regards,
Tony

At 21:36 21/11/2004, Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
>Mat, et all,
>
>I would oppose moving the social to Sunday night ... As Geoff mentioned
in a
>message, that would exclude a very large number of participants, due to
the
>fact that not everyone arrives on Sunday, or at least many arrive quite
late
>on Sunday.
>
>Also, while it would free up time on Monday, I would also oppose moving
the
>opening EC meeting to Sunday for the same reason. It would mean that
the EC
>meeting would, effectively, be less open to attendance by interested
>parties.
>
>Regards,
>Carl
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-stds-802-sec@listserv.ieee.org
> > [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@listserv.ieee.org] On Behalf Of
> > Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
> > Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 6:53 PM
> > To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> > Subject: Re: [802SEC] Socials
> >
> > Pat,
> >
> > An alternative I've raised is the possibility to moving the
> > Social to Sunday Night as a meet and greet. We can couple it
> > with an introduction to 802 session. Also, since most of us
> > are here on Sunday anyway, we can move the opening EC
> > meetings to Sunday. I'm moving ballot resolution to telecom
> > so that should make some room.
> >
> > Just some ideas.
> >
> > Mat
> >
> > Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
> > Senior Member Technical Staff
> > BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
> > Office: +1 973.633.6344
> > email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-stds-802-sec@listserv.ieee.org
> > [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@listserv.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pat
Thaler
> > Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 6:30 PM
> > To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> > Subject: [802SEC] Socials
> >
> > I think we should put the question raised by 802.11 of
> > whether to continue having socials to our working groups at
> > the next plenary. On the one hand, I hate to get rid of the
> > opportunity to meet each other in a less formal setting than
> > our meetings. On the other hand, as we get larger it isn't
> > clear that socials are working.
> >
> > It is becoming increasingly difficult to locate people in
> > these large gatherings.
> >
> > The noise level is often so high that conversation is
> > difficult - a positive feedback loop that results in a hoarse
throat.
> >
> > Because of these factors I know some people don't choose to
> > attend the social.
> >
> > The cost seems much higher than the benefit they are
> > providing - over $30 a head at the last plenary.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Pat
> >
> > ----------
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> >
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> >
> >
>
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Regards,
Tony

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