RE: [802SEC] Re: Wireless LCD Projectors for use at July plenary at HR-SF

["Rigsbee, Everett O" <everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com>]

Matt,  I don't know where you got the notion of a $300 unit, but you can forget about that!  The Epson 735c projector would cost us about $4,000. each, so you don't want to invest in even one of these unless you are fairly certain that it will do the job and provide some useful benefits over our current capabilities.  

Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing - SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
(425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com


-----Original Message-----
From: mjsherman@research.att.com [mailto:mjsherman@research.att.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:29 PM
To: bob.grow@intel.com; millardo@dominetsystems.com; Rigsbee, Everett O
Cc: billq@attglobal.net; dawns@facetoface-events.com; darcel@facetoface-events.com; jennifer@facetoface-events.com; bheile@ieee.org; bob@airespace.com; p.nikolich@ieee.org; marks@boulder.nist.gov; stuart.kerry@philips.com; tgodfrey@intersil.com; apetrick@parkervision.com; donbe@microsoft.com; stds-802-sec@ieee.org; stuart@ok-brit.com; hworstell@research.att.com; rrm@research.att.com
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Re: Wireless LCD Projectors for use at July plenary at HR-SF

Hi Bob,

Well, I don't mind being a guinea pig - in fact I am volunteering.  I
chose Sunday night exactly because it is a less stress full environment.
If it won't work there no further testing is necessary.  There will also
be less activity for it to impact.  I would happily work with a loaner,
though if we really can get something for $300, I'd say just buy one to
see.  If it does not work, we can send it back!

Mat

Matthew Sherman 
Vice Chair, IEEE 802 
Technology Consultant 
Communications Technology Research 
AT&T Labs - Shannon Laboratory 
Room B255, Building 103 
180 Park Avenue 
P.O. Box 971 
Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971 
Phone: +1 (973) 236-6925 
Fax: +1 (973) 360-5877 
EMAIL: mjsherman@att.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: Grow, Bob [mailto:bob.grow@intel.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 5:15 PM
To: Sherman,Matthew J (Matthew); millardo@dominetsystems.com;
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
Cc: billq@attglobal.net; dawns@facetoface-events.com;
darcel@facetoface-events.com; jennifer@facetoface-events.com;
bheile@ieee.org; bob@airespace.com; p.nikolich@ieee.org;
marks@boulder.nist.gov; stuart.kerry@philips.com; tgodfrey@intersil.com;
apetrick@parkervision.com; donbe@microsoft.com; stds-802-sec@ieee.org;
stuart@ok-brit.com; Worstell,Harry R (Harry); Miller,Robert R (Robert)
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Re: Wireless LCD Projectors for use at July
plenary at HR-SF

Matt:

If we need to use our own technologies then I want us to buy some 10
Gigabit Ethernet to interconnect servers and I think our internet
connection ought to be a 802.3ah Gigabit Ethernet pipe (but I'm sure
Mike would want it to be RPR and Roger would want it to be 802.16), and
I want all the access points to be 802.3af powered, and ...  ;-)

I feel no obligation to make LMSC a testbed for product implementations
of any of our standards.  Actually, the proposition of making our
meetings a testbed for our standards is down right scary and certainly
isn't a declared purpose of LMSC. Our purpose is to write standards, not
be a test lab.  I agree with Tony that very quickly developing standards
and testing products become contradictory.

Let's just use the technology that we need and even better technology
that is well proven and that doesn't take meeting or volunteer
bandwidth.  I'm not convinced of the value of wireless projectors
because I have seen little problem with how we use the current
projectors.  I would not support their acquisition until a lot of
questions are answered.  (Buzz is really good at getting a loaner for
evaluation.)  

Beyond trying one out (Sunday evening isn't a particularly stressful
time for RF usage), there are the concerns you list.  I agree with Geoff
that there are other collaboration tools that might be much better than
a wireless projector.  I share Howard's concerns about loading new
drivers at a meeting.  Like Tony, I don't want to be the guinea pig.
(Do you know of Bill Lidinsky's experience with installing an 802.11
driver for an SEC meeting -- it wasn't just a half hour of wasted time
for him.)

--Bob Grow

-----Original Message-----
From: mjsherman@research.att.com [mailto:mjsherman@research.att.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:20 PM
To: millardo@dominetsystems.com; everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
Cc: billq@attglobal.net; dawns@facetoface-events.com;
darcel@facetoface-events.com; jennifer@facetoface-events.com;
bheile@ieee.org; bob@airespace.com; p.nikolich@ieee.org;
marks@boulder.nist.gov; stuart.kerry@philips.com; tgodfrey@intersil.com;
apetrick@parkervision.com; donbe@microsoft.com; stds-802-sec@ieee.org;
stuart@ok-brit.com; hworstell@research.att.com; rrm@research.att.com
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Re: Wireless LCD Projectors for use at July
plenary at HR-SF



Hi everyone,

So I'll add one more opinion to the pile.  I think it is important that
we try new things and see how they work, especially if they are our own
technologies.  If we won't buy it, who will?  

I can see value for a projector with a wireless interface - where a guy
in the back of the room can quickly display their objection on the
screen, or where you might even be able to briefly split the screen
between two inputs for comparison.  But frankly, I am perplexed by the
software and control issues - another reason why I want to try it so I
can see first hand if it works or not.

Another area of personal concern for me is whether the RF environment in
our meetings can hack it.  I'm already not very happy with the
performance we get out of our current WLAN without a video load.
802.11e (QoS) is not out yet.  So, I can't wait to see what happens when
we add a video load in with our existing loads.  Will the WLAN be able
to handle the load?  Will other traffic in the area impact the quality
of the video on the projector?

I view IEEE 802 not just as a standards development organization, but a
as a potential test bed for our own technologies.  Actually, I wish we
did more testing and evaluation of the network we run here.  The one
thing I will caution is I'm not sure myself if an investment in the
projector will be worth while, so don't buy more than one.  I think it
is worth buying one though just to find out if it is worth while.

Mat 

Matthew Sherman 
Vice Chair, IEEE 802 
Technology Consultant 
Communications Technology Research 
AT&T Labs - Shannon Laboratory 
Room B255, Building 103 
180 Park Avenue 
P.O. Box 971 
Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971 
Phone: +1 (973) 236-6925 
Fax: +1 (973) 360-5877 
EMAIL: mjsherman@att.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Frazier [mailto:millardo@dominetsystems.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:08 PM
To: Rigsbee, Everett O
Cc: billq@attglobal.net; 802 @F2F Dawn S; darcel@facetoface-events.com;
802 @F2F Jennifer Hull; 802 Bob Heile; Bob O'Hara; Paul Nikolich
(E-mail); 802 Roger B. Marks; 802 Stuart J. Kerry; Tim Godfrey; 802. 11
Al Petrick (802-11 Al Petrick); Don Berry; 802 Exec; stuart@ok-brit.com
Subject: [802SEC] Re: Wireless LCD Projectors for use at July plenary at
HR-SF



Personally, I would not pay extra $ for a projector
with a wireless interface.  Based on bitter experience,
I never add software or hardware to my laptop while I
am traveling, so I loathe the idea of having to add
some new driver for this interface.

The time required to connect a cable to a projector
is minimal.  Time is occasionally wasted when a
presenter can't figure out how to toggle between
their laptop's LCD and the external monitor interface,
or when this simple action produces a "Microsoft Moment".
I can't see where adding a couple of layers of complexity
will improve the situation.  For large, busy groups that
need to save time, the best technique is to load all
of the presentation materials onto one laptop, thus
avoiding the need to switch connections.

In the five years that we have been buying projectors,
I have learned that "bells and whistles" like cameras
are pretty much useless. I would put a wireless interface
into the same category. It's just one more thing that
can break, requiring a potentially costly repair, and
taking a projector out of service.

Let's please stick with simple, durable, bright,
high-resolution DLP projectors with minimal bells and whistles.

Howard (Yes, I'm a Luddite, and proud of it) Frazier

Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:

> FYI-  I just happened to stumble across the Epson 735c Wireless LCD
Projector (see attached specification sheet) and thought this might just
be the thing for our future meetings, but wondered if anyone has had any
experience with this unit, and has opinions on its suitability for use
at IEEE 802 plenaries and interims.  
> 
> It seems to be price competitive with the regular wired units, and
might allow a lot more flexibility in sharing an LCD projector amongst
several presenters.  
> 
> Input and opinions on this notion are encouraged.  
> 
> I'm working on seeing if we can get a couple of these units to use in
SF for evaluation purposes.  Any support for this from our Epson folks
would be seriously appreciated.   :-)  
> 
> Thanx,  Buzz
> Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> Boeing - SSG
> PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> Seattle, WA  98124-2207
> (425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
> everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> 
> 
>