Re: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ Ballot on WG Membership
Mat,
Unfortunately, I have a number of objections to this proposed P&P change.
1) If you are going to modify anything related to the "letter of
intent", it should to be to make clear what item(s) of commitment the
letter is supposed to make. Would a letter stating one's intent to
commit murder be acceptable?
2) Requiring 75% presence at a meeting is problematic. We have no way
of making this determination with the result that either this is an
empty criterion or an invitation to a he says/she says contest. I
believe that the purpose of this change is to prevent attendees from
getting credit for two meetings that are simultaneous. I agree with the
purpose, but disagree with the criterion you propose. Bob Grow
suggested better wording for this.
There is also a problem with inconsistent and, in my opinion, ambiguous
vocabulary. We speak of "participation", "presence" and "attendance".
Why three different words. Is "participation" different from
"attendance"? Does "participation" require doing something more than
just sitting on one's butt?
I suggest that we speak of earning attendance credit for a session by
attending at least 75% of the WG's meetings during that session and
leave the method of determining who attended which WG meetings to the
WG. If must however be made clear that WG attendance records are
available to voting any member of the EC upon their request. WG
attendance records are not confidential to the WG.
3) If definitions of "meeting" and "session" are needed, just given
them, don't make the reader look elsewhere.
4) I am not convinced the proposed change in how individuals become
members of a new WG is the solution to the problems encountered with
802.20 in March. There were individuals that became members of 802.20
and who also signed into to simultaneous meetings of 802.20 and another
WG. There were individuals that refused to reveal their sponsors.
I don't think individuals with attendance credit in other WGs should get
any advantage over those without attendance credit in other WGs in
gaining membership in a new WG.
I would rather retain the current rule for membership in a new WG, with
"meeting" replaced with "session", and fix the obviously broken
membership retention rule for new WGs in the manner I have proposed elsewhere.
In the spirit of openness, I think that all attendees should be required
to state who they represent/who is paying their expenses. Those that do
not comply should not granted attendance credit for the session.
5) It is unclear that the proposed restrictions on who can be a WG
Chair will not cause more problems that it solves.
Thanks,
wlq
mjsherman@research.att.com wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I don't seem to be able to find your comments on this ballot. Perhaps I
> misplaced them, or perhaps they never made it through on the reflector.
> Can you resend them to me?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mat
>
> Matthew Sherman
> Vice Chair, IEEE 802
> Technology Consultant
> Communications Technology Research
> AT&T Labs - Shannon Laboratory
> Room B255, Building 103
> 180 Park Avenue
> P.O. Box 971
> Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971
> Phone: +1 (973) 236-6925
> Fax: +1 (973) 360-5877
> EMAIL: mjsherman@att.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Quackenbush [mailto:billq@attglobal.net]
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 7:46 PM
> To: Sherman,Matthew J (Matthew)
> Cc: stds-802-sec@ieee.org
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ Ballot on WG
> Membership
>
> I vote DISAPPROVE.
>
> Comments to follow,
>
> Thanks,
>
> wlq
>
> > mjsherman@research.att.com wrote:
> >
> > Dear EC members,
> >
> >
> >
> > Attached you will find the text for an LMSC P&P revision ballot on WG
> > Membership. This ballot was approved at the Friday March 14, 2003
> > plenary session. It is identical to what was presented at the Plenary
> > session except that per the minutes of that meeting I have change the
> > Section number 1.1.1.1 to 5.1.3.1. The purpose and rationale for the
> > ballot are as given in the attached document.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ballot Opens: March 27, 2003
> >
> >
> >
> > Ballot Closes: April 28, 2003 11:59 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > WG chairs, if you haven't already done so, please invite your WG
> > members to comment through you. Buzz, please ensure this gets sent to
> > the "802ALL" email list as well. While I encourage discussion on the
> > reflector, I am trying something new this time, and have included a
> > ballot response / comment form. Prior to the close of the ballot,
> > please fill out the attached form with your vote and a summary of your
> > comments. Then send it to the reflector. I will accept updated forms
> > until the close of the ballot. I'm also open to comments on how this
> > process works. Hopefully this will make it easier for me to compile
> > and distribute comments, and not much more difficult for everyone
> > else. If it doesn't work, we will fall back to the old process the
> > next round of ballots.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks & Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Mat
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Matthew Sherman
> > Vice Chair, IEEE 802
> > Technology Consultant
> > Communications Technology Research
> > AT&T Labs - Shannon Laboratory
> > Room B255, Building 103
> > 180 Park Avenue
> > P.O. Box 971
> > Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971
> > Phone: +1 (973) 236-6925
> > Fax: +1 (973) 360-5877
> > EMAIL: mjsherman@att.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Name: 802.0-
> >
> Balloted_WG_Membership_P&P_change.pdf
> > Type: Adobe
> Portable Document Format
> > 802.0- Balloted_WG_Membership_P&P_change.pdf
> (application/pdf)
> > Encoding: base64
> > Description: 802.0-
> >
> Balloted_WG_Membership_P&P_change.pdf
> >
> >
> Name:
> IEEE-802-LMSC-P&P-Revision-Comment-Form-for-WG-Membership-ballot.xls
> >
> IEEE-802-LMSC-P&P-Revision-Comment-Form-for-WG-Membership-ballot.xls
> Type: Microsoft Excel Worksheet (application/vnd.ms-excel)
> >
> Encoding: base64
> >
> Description:
> IEEE-802-LMSC-P&P-Revision-Comment-Form-for-WG-Membership-ballot.xls