RE: Redirection of IPF dollars
Buzz -
As you say, we are in synch here.
Regards,
Tony
At 13:25 21/10/99 -0700, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
>Tony, I think we're in complete synch on this one. Just a couple of
comments on your msg.:
>
>> As far as I can tell, there no longer seems to be any doubt over the third
>> possible question; namely whether we want to continue sending this money to
>> ANSI (correct me if I'm wrong).
>I think you did an admirable job of demonstrating this previously, we just
never took the official poll of the membership to ratify it. And the money
goes to ANSI to support the "ISO/JTC1 Secretariat" (it doesn't just go into
their general fund).
>
>> If we can't get to d) at the November meeting, reduce the meeting fee to
$50
>> (or maybe slightly more, to allow for future eventualities) immediately,
making
>> it clear that this is a temporary measure, and that the fee may revert to
>> its current level when d) is resolved.
>I wish we could reduce the fee to $50 (I'd be a very popular guy!!!), but
what I meant was that we could reduce the fee BY $50 rather than increase
it by $25. as Bob Grow has suggested we need to. Sorry if that was not clear.
>
>I agree 100% that we need a full disclosure from the IEEE Stds Office as
to what are the expenses and opportunities for lost revenue that would need
to be covered (based on some real data - not this hand-waving stuff!) to
see what it will take. Maybe we only need $20 per attendee. I'm surely
not anxious to offer the full $100. until I've seen some figures that
support that as the true cost.
>
>Thanx, Buzz
>Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>Boeing SSG
>PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>ph: (425) 865-2443, fx: (425) 865-6721
>email: everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>> ----------
>> From: Tony Jeffree[SMTP:tony@jeffree.co.uk]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 2:27 AM
>> To: Rigsbee, Everett O
>> Cc: stds-802-sec@ieee.org
>> Subject: RE: Redirection of IPF dollars
>> Buzz -
>> There seem to be two things needed here:
>> 1) Some clarity from the standards department with regard to what it would
>> take to make our standards freely available (and I take it that what we are
>> talking about here is freely available PDF; there is no reason to stop
>> selling the paper versions if there is a market for them).
>> 2) Some clarity from the WGs that this is something that we want to do
>> (Certainly, the sentiment in 802.1 is strongly in favour of this happening;
>> no clear picture at present from the other WGs).
>> Certainly, if we are planning to spend $100 of each participant's money, we
>> need answers to both questions.
>> As far as I can tell, there no longer seems to be any doubt over the third
>> possible question; namely whether we want to continue sending this money to
>> ANSI (correct me if I'm wrong).
>> So the right steps would seem to me to be:
>> a) Take an immediate decision to stop supporting ANSI with our meeting
>> dollars. As you have already been pointed out, it can successfully be
>> argued that any such payment is now in direct violation of our own rules;
>> we really don't need the pain of being called to account on this. If we
>> can't get to d) at the November meeting, reduce the meeting fee to $50 (or
>> maybe slightly more, to allow for future eventualities) immediately,
making
>> it clear that this is a temporary measure, and that the fee may revert to
>> its current level when d) is resolved. The alternative is to start a
separate
>> fund pending resolution, but I guess that is probably not a smart idea.
>> b) In all WGs where this issue has not already been discussed, develop a
>> position on whether participants support the principle of using $100 (or
>> similar amount) of the meeting fee as a means of achieving free
>> distribution of our standards. We should then be in a position to clarify
>> the views of 802 on this by the end of the Kauai meeting.
>> c) Get the necessary information/commitment from the standards
department /
>> standards board in order to inform whatever agreement comes out of b).>
>> d) Agree what we will do given the outcome of of b) and c).
>> Regards,
>> Tony
>> t 18:05 20/10/99 -0700, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
>> >Bob, I like that idea too, but at least the way I read the motion, we're
>> not getting that! We're giving our money in hopes that they can promote
>> the idea of making P802 standards freely available electronically. That
>> sound a little too much like Werner Earhardt's Hunger Project to me. We're
>> not guaranteed to get anything as far as I can see. It's like paying for a
>> lobbyist. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of doing that without at
>> least the specific mandate to do it from the taxpayers (our attendees). If
>> they indicate clearly by a vote that they are willing to make such an
>> investment with money from their fees, then we're OK. Without that we're
>> behaving like those Washington politicians who are always ready to spend
>> other folks money to support causes that they like. I'd prefer a more
>> democratic approach, especially if we're acting in violation of our own
rules.
>> >Thanx, Buzz
>> >Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>> >Boeing SSG
>> >PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>> >Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>> >ph: (425) 865-2443, fx: (425) 865-6721
>> >email: everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>> >> From: rdlove@us.ibm.com[SMTP:rdlove@us.ibm.com]
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 5:42 PM
>> >> To: stds-802-sec@ieee.org
>> >> Subject: RE: Redirection of IPF dollars
>> >> Buzz, I love the idea of using the funds to make the resultant
standards freely
>> >> available. Most of us that have enough business interest to pay the
802 meeting
>> >> fees have an equally strong interest in seeing the standards freely
available.
>> >> It is the right way to proceed!
>> >> Best regards.
>> >> Robert D. Love
>> >> Program Manager, IBM ACS - US
>> >> Chair IEEE 802.5 Token Ring Working Group
>> >> IBM
>> >> 500 Park Offices Phone: 919 543-2746
>> >> P. O. Box 12195 CNPA/656 Fax: 419 715-0359
>> >> Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA E-Mail: rdlove@us.ibm.com
>> >> "Rigsbee, Everett O" <Everett.Rigsbee@PSS.Boeing.com> on 10/20/99
>> 08:18:45 PM
>> >> To: stds-802-sec@ieee.org, 802 Howard Frazier <hfrazier@cisco.com>
>> >> Subject: RE: Redirection of IPF dollars
>> >> Howard, I would suggest that we really need to consider a 3rd option,
>> namely:
>> >> * In order to comply with our own rules which mandate that meeting
fees
>> >> collected at plenary sessions be used exclusively to defray the costs
>> associated
>> >> with putting on the meeting, IEEE802 resolves to stop contributions to
>> support
>> >> the ISO secretariat and use the savings to not only prevent the
otherwise
>> >> necessary further increase in the meeting fees, but instead reduce the
>> meeting
>> >> fees (~$50).
>> >>
>> >> I would like to see us take a poll of ALL of our WG attendees that
>> indicates
>> >> whether we should:
>> >>
>> >> a). Continue with our current level of contributions to support the ISO
>> >> secretariat.
>> >>
>> >> b) Give the same amount to the IEEE-SA instead to promote the idea of
>> making
>> >> P802 standards freely available electronically.
>> >>
>> >> c) Retain the money to prevent future increase in plenary meeting
fees and
>> >> reduce the fees instead (~$50).
>> >>
>> >> We should collect the information during the Nov. WG meetings for review
>> and
>> >> action by the SEC on Thursday evening.
>> >>
>> >> I believe we need to hear the sentiments of all of our attendees before
>> we take
>> >> any unilateral action.
>> >>
>> >> Thanx, Buzz
>> >> Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>> >> Boeing SSG
>> >> PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>> >> Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>> >> ph: (425) 865-2443, fx: (425) 865-6721
>> >> email: everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>> >> > ----------
>> >> > From: Howard Frazier[SMTP:hfrazier@cisco.com]
>> >> > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 3:26 PM
>> >> > To: stds-802-sec@ieee.org
>> >> > Subject: Redirection of IPF dollars
>> >> >
>> >> > At the July SEC meeting, Bill Lidinsky presented a motion during>
>> >> > agenda item 4.9 which read:
>> >> > In order to further the goal of making P802 standards free and
>> >> > electronically available to the public worldwide, IEEE P802
resolves
>> >> > that all P802 funds now used to support ISO secretariats be
>> >> > diverted to supporting the IEEE-SA in achieving the above goal.>
>> >> > Consideration of this motion was postponed to the November meeting by
>> >> > a vote of 9/3/1.
>> >> > I will put this item at the top of the agenda for the monday morning
>> >> > exec meeting. Will we be ready to have some discussion and reach a
>>
>> >> > conclusion? I haven't seen any additional information about this
issue
>> >> > on the reflector.
>> >> > Howard Frazier
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>